Luton's New Stand

Red Sky said:
For me a lot of the stuff on this forum is just old people moaning about change. We have people complaining we're spending too much on one hand while other people complaining it's not enough. Then people moaning about the owners adding additional revenue streams. I've been through the dark times, I know what I prefer.
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When 'change' stops you getting into a game for the first time in 20/30/40 years despite unwavering support year in, year out people will rightly be upset.

No one minds the 'greater good' , I mean they could instantly displace 2500 people by building a new stand for example but its the manner in which some of these changes are being implemented.
 
If the club is to get to the higher echelons of the PL .and into Europe. ..we need a 35,000 plus capacity stadium...to accommodate screaming, roaring, working class fans to intimidate the opposition.
Anfield : The example has been there long enough !
 
red_house said:
The hospitality that is pissing so many people off will generate a drop in the ocean compared to the millions and hundreds of millions you quote above.
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Yes but people have said that about the ticket price increases, and the sponsorship price increases, etc. etc.

All of these drops in the ocean will add up to millions of pounds. Tbh I suspect the motivation is more to do with offsetting the ffp tornado heading our way as opposed the infrastructure. People moaned like hell that Max didn't do enough and now they are moaning like hell about the club increasing revenue. You can't have it both ways.
 
F√cking shoot the 'old people'. coming anywhere Dean Court eh ...what do they know about Football... they might even have seen Greaves or Best play live.. or yer famous ' Engerland' win the World Cup.
 
davidwhitehead said:
I haven't mentioned season tickets or training grounds.
However I think it's colosally naive to assume that Bill Foley's business objectives align with those of genuine long-term supporters.

Can we discuss that ?
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Of course they don't. Neither did Max Demin's. You say you want a bigger or new ground though but it appears you don't want to put up with the changes that the guy with the money to do that wants toale to facilitate that. As I said, you can't have it both ways.
 
If the commitment is a new stadium in three years, as Foley said on tv this weekend, then why would they build a stand like Luton?

I was very sceptical about Foley at the start and the promises he was making. Especially when we were slow out of the blocks in January but:

• We've put up money for the January window. ✔ Delivered
• We've secured money for the summer window. ✔ Delivered
• We're completing the training complex which had ground to a halt. - In progress but definitely happening so can't see it being anything other than delivered.
• We'll build a new stadium or redevelop Dean Court. x Nothing yet except his verbal promises but since it requires the point before to be completed first that's fair enough.

Repeating that an individual example of the current fundraising is a drop in the ocean compared to the spending misses the point. Alone they might be but they don't exist in isolation. Put them all together and you're adding £4m+ to the turnover, which isn't insignificant. It would pay, for example, the annual cost of Zabarnyi's transfer fee. Plus, it's repeating revenue which makes the business more attractive when Foley does look to make his money back and sell.

Some of the changes are brutal and tough on fans, many of whom have supported the club through thick and thin. However, there are also fans who supported the club through thick and thin who are missing out entirely. And the new stadium will require a whole new generation of fans which they need to somehow try and get involved more with the club.

I don't buy the Luton example. They are doing it because they are forced by the PL requirements. No other reason. Nothing to do with the fans. If they could have got away without doing it they would have left things as they were and instead put the money towards their new stadium.
 
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red_house said:
When 'change' stops you getting into a game for the first time in 20/30/40 years despite unwavering support year in, year out people will rightly be upset.

No one minds the 'greater good' , I mean they could instantly displace 2500 people by building a new stand for example but its the manner in which some of these changes are being implemented.
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I do tend to agree on the tickets thing, although I do think they are probably correct in that the number of tickets available to points holders now is probably no different to what it was in 2015 due to the number of season tickets given up since then. Thousands of would-be loyal supporters missed out before these changes and, like season ticket holders, these high points holders have been fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to be ahead of all of the youngsters chomping at the bit to get in every week.

Not saying I wouldn't be just as pissed off if it was me who was at the rough end of these changes of course.
 
Neil Dawson said:
You are not allowed to discuss anything David. We are window cleaners and road sweepers and Bill is a very rich American businessman. He has all that money for a reason and we have very little for the opposite reason. Therefore everything he does is right and our thoughts on it are laughable. If it all ends in tears it will all have been worth it.

Just saving you the time of writing any more ;)
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Do you live in a weird fantasy land where you aren't allowed to discuss things? Funny because I'm sure I remember you posting the same old criticisms over and over again for years on end. Must have imagined it.
 
I echo what Kirsikka said.

Plus any new stadium won’t pay for itself. Foley has said the the budget is about £90 million, that some of the cost could be met by debentures and that he has some potential investors lined up for the stadium project.

Including finance costs, professional fees and relocating the Athletics Track the total cost will be, say, £100 million. That implies the new stadium would need to generate £12/£15 million a year in profits to be commercially viable. All these price hikes are essentially a proof of concept to demonstrate that a new stadium could pay for itself.

I can’t think of any other realistic way to get a new stadium.
 
red_house said:
When 'change' stops you getting into a game for the first time in 20/30/40 years despite unwavering support year in, year out people will rightly be upset.

No one minds the 'greater good' , I mean they could instantly displace 2500 people by building a new stand for example but its the manner in which some of these changes are being implemented.
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Unwavering support means you'll either have a season ticket or maximum points doesn't it?

We're the victims of our own success. As I say, the biggest obstacle by far (as was the case under Demin) is that our ground is too small. For the first time in our history it looks like we have significant investment, a plan and the training ground is being built.

You say no-one minds the greater good, but that's exactly what the Hospitality thing is all about.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I do tend to agree on the tickets thing, although I do think they are probably correct in that the number of tickets available to points holders now is probably no different to what it was in 2015 due to the number of season tickets given up since then. Thousands of would-be loyal supporters missed out before these changes and, like season ticket holders, these high points holders have been fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to be ahead of all of the youngsters chomping at the bit to get in every week.

Not saying I wouldn't be just as pissed off if it was me who was at the rough end of these changes of course.
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I think one issue is lack of communication, strangely. Bill made his throwaway remark before the Spurs game about a new stadium but as yet nothing much else other than a few comments here and there. At the same time we're seeing awkward attempts at growing the fan / data base, increased hospitality (costing ordinary people their seats) getting spammed with e mails etc yet no real consultation on the long term project. We still don't get updates on the training ground and rely on people sticking their head through a hedge.

Trust me I'm not so entitled I think we need a new stadium, the majority just want more seats, a bigger temp stand, fill in the corners.

They could learn quite a bit from Bristol City who initiated consultation and involvement on their revamp very early in the process.

People might say 'its delicate ' we don't want to upset locals etc but I don't buy it. Nowadays the planning process has to be transparent

We're all still basically guessing.
 
I'm going to add I think it's a little bit unfortunate the way there is a strand of point scoring (excuse the pun) between fans on worthiness.

The reality is we were never selling out until the good times started to roll so there are definitely people who get tickets who weren't there in the bad times. At the same time, due to personal circumstances, there will be people who used to support us to the hilt through the L1 and L2 days who have been cut out in the PL years.

To hear it here, the only people who are finding it tough to get under the changes to the points scheme are those who went to watch us away in Hartlepool on a freezing day in 1981 with the implication that the only people they're losing their tickets to are bandwagon jumpers.

If my life went through some unexpected and weird change meaning I ended up living back in the UK, back in Bmth in fact, am I an unworthy fan because I don't have a full points allocation? Less worthy than someone that started going in the second half of the Championship winning season because of all the positive noise around the club at that time?

You know what? I welcome the new people. Without them we will never grow as a club. Do I want any of the old guard to miss out? No. But let's not kid ourselves that none of the old guard weren't locked out.

Maybe we need to try and reframe things in a more positive way. Politician speak, sure, but perhaps the perspective helps. Maybe.

If you were told that your attending games would be disrupted and trickier for three seasons whilst the current stadium was redeveloped and so closed section by section, most people would be annoyed but accepting that's part of the price to pay.

Well now we're being told they need a larger active database of buyers as part of the new stadium project. That means for the three years (if Foley delivers to his timescale) ticket buying will be disrupted but then we'll have the new stadium.

If it turns out that they don't deliver on the promises then I think most would be on board in getting angry at that point. So far they have though, so we're going to have to deal with things being a mess for a few years.
 
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red_house said:
I think one issue is lack of communication, strangely. Bill made his throwaway remark before the Spurs game about a new stadium but as yet nothing much else other than a few comments here and there. At the same time we're seeing awkward attempts at growing the fan / data base, increased hospitality (costing ordinary people their seats) getting spammed with e mails etc yet no real consultation on the long term project. We still don't get updates on the training ground and rely on people sticking their head through a hedge.

Trust me I'm not so entitled I think we need a new stadium, the majority just want more seats, a bigger temp stand, fill in the corners.

They could learn quite a bit from Bristol City who initiated consultation and involvement on their revamp very early in the process.

People might say 'its delicate ' we don't want to upset locals etc but I don't buy it. Nowadays the planning process has to be transparent

We're all still basically guessing.
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Yeah I wonder if Bill is fully aware of how difficult and costly large projects are in this country when he makes those off the cuff comments. Different example but if you look at new rail projects like HS2 they are multiple times more expensive than in other countries. Part of this is land and labour costs but a significant part is, well, the NIMBY factor. Consultations, delays, redesigns, alterations, etc. you just can't decide to do something and get it done quickly, especially in a park.

I do think Sorryroger is spot on though - the funding will require investors to be convinced of the viability of the project and they will need to show the potential for massively increased corporate income. I'm sure the last thing Bill and Jim want to do is piss off long term fans but it appears to be a necessary evil.
 
red_house said:
I think one issue is lack of communication, strangely. Bill made his throwaway remark before the Spurs game about a new stadium but as yet nothing much else other than a few comments here and there. At the same time we're seeing awkward attempts at growing the fan / data base, increased hospitality (costing ordinary people their seats) getting spammed with e mails etc yet no real consultation on the long term project. We still don't get updates on the training ground and rely on people sticking their head through a hedge.

Trust me I'm not so entitled I think we need a new stadium, the majority just want more seats, a bigger temp stand, fill in the corners.

They could learn quite a bit from Bristol City who initiated consultation and involvement on their revamp very early in the process.

People might say 'its delicate ' we don't want to upset locals etc but I don't buy it. Nowadays the planning process has to be transparent

We're all still basically guessing.
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I mean this was 3 months ago. Not really a throwaway remark. Fairly clear on the approach and ambition.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

Foley shines light into future stadium plans for Cherries

CHAIRMAN Bill Foley has offered up an insight into the thinking behind Cherries’ future stadium plans.
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk www.bournemouthecho.co.uk
 
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