Match Report and Mom v Everton

red_house said:
King and Wilson were closest surely (Wilson was still looking in the opposite direction) Ibe reacted before those two but only because Ake and Surman were screaming at someone to close them down. As you say his reaction was half arsed and he doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the box at times if indeed it was his job. I'm not sure I would pin the blame solely on him however, we are also ignoring how Keane managed to get his head on the ball.
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I’m not blaming Ibe, just commenting on what was a pin pointing of blame on the pitch which was interesting. We will always be vulnerable to a large centre half trundling on to a lofted cross as we don’t have any players over six foot. Take out Franno for Smith and that’s another gone. I think it’s half the reason Eddie is not playing Cook as Surman and Gosling offer a slight aerial presence defending set pieces.
 
Creative midfielders like Lewis and Brooksy have to take risks in playing the ball forwards which is encouraged by EH. Obviously, this doesn’t come off every time which is how things are in reality. Lewis also needs to play regularly to maintain his skill level and not warming the bench.
 
DodgerCherry said:
Creative midfielders like Lewis and Brooksy have to take risks in playing the ball forwards which is encouraged by EH. Obviously, this doesn’t come off every time which is how things are in reality. Lewis also needs to play regularly to maintain his skill level and not warming the bench.
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All very good points. But when you’ve started the season unbeaten, you have to take your chance when it comes to prove you can improve and offer the right balance to the side.

Giving the ball away every other pass doesn’t show that at the moment.

He needs a good game Tuesday, which I have no doubt he will provide.
 
DJ said:
All very good points. But when you’ve started the season unbeaten, you have to take your chance when it comes to prove you can improve and offer the right balance to the side.

Giving the ball away every other pass doesn’t show that at the moment.

He needs a good game Tuesday, which I have no doubt he will provide.
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Do you think we wouldn’t have beaten the might of Cardiff and West Ham had Cook played?
 
Neil Dawson said:
Do you think we wouldn’t have beaten the might of Cardiff and West Ham had Cook played?
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I’m saying Surman and Gosling have taken their chance.

It’s a 38 game season we don’t have to pick our best 11 players in every game.
 
DJ said:
The only difference Cook made when he came on was giving the ball away countless times.

Took 10 minutes to get into the game and was only on for quarter of an hour.

He started to string some passes together at that point, but before then it felt like he’d fail to pass five yards.

Stats could well prove me wrong, but can’t remember many misplaced passes from Surman yesterday despite the grief he was getting from the stands?
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Countless times? Midfield were poor, especially 1st half, it was crying out for Cook. Yes he gave it away a couple of times shortly after coming on, which is why I would have brought him on at HT or shortly after. Eddie doesn't change it quick enough when we are on the back foot and it's inevitable the opposition are going to score, then he changes it, that's why we have a good reputation for coming from behind imo.
 
bog_standard said:
Countless times? Midfield were poor, especially 1st half, it was crying out for Cook. Yes he gave it away a couple of times shortly after coming on, which is why I would have brought him on at HT or shortly after. Eddie doesn't change it quick enough when we are on the back foot and it's inevitable the opposition are going to score, then he changes it, that's why we have a good reputation for coming from behind imo.
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Hopefully someone with access to the stats can put up the pass completion for Surman, Gosling and Cook for yesterday. It felt like Cook was very wasteful early on. Happy to be proved wrong if not the case.
 
DJ said:
Hopefully someone with access to the stats can put up the pass completion for Surman, Gosling and Cook for yesterday. It felt like Cook was very wasteful early on. Happy to be proved wrong if not the case.
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Cook did give it away. If you move forwards with the ball and try difficult passes that’s what happens. I could play centre midfield and keep giving the ball to Ake and have a 100% pass completion rate.

Stats tell you nada.
 
I’m a big fan of L Cook and undoubtedly he is the future, but I agree that he gave up possession quite a lot for the time he was on the pitch.
His desire to make something happen is a great attribute but sometimes costs in loosing the ball which you would expect . It’s the fine balance between doing enough and not too much. Maybe today he was too eager.
There was a moment , in injury time I think , when we turned over possession near our 18 yard line and Lewis has the opportunity to clear t up pitch but instead decided to turn inside and try to build play the otherway . Would have been fabulous if it had worked but lost the ball in a challenge and they had a clear shot on goal 20 yards out which fortunately fizzed over . Would have been a sucker punch .
This is not a dig,as I love his style of play, just an observation about the risk /reward side of his game
 
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Neil Dawson said:
Cook did give it away. If you move forwards with the ball and try difficult passes that’s what happens. I could play centre midfield and keep giving the ball to Ake and have a 100% pass completion rate.

Stats tell you nada.
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Bog_standard was questioning my reference to giving it away “countless times”. I’d have thought the stats would tell me that...silly me.
 
drd said:
Hmm. Everton have no pace? Walcott looked pretty speedy to me! Begovic I thought was excellent. The beaten at the near post thing is overplayed. It was drilled in and he had v little time to react. Charlie struggled with Walcotts pace although good going forward.
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Agree with this. Begovic getting stick for the first but it was hit with such pace. Bigger issue for me was Charlie getting roasted for pace in the lead-up.
 
redskins said:
I’m a big fan of L Cook and undoubtedly he is the future, but I agree that he gave up possession quite a lot for the time he was on the pitch.
His desire to make something happen is a great attribute but sometimes costs in loosing the ball which you would expect . It’s the fine balance between doing enough and not too much. Maybe today he was too eager.
There was a moment , in injury time I think , when we turned over possession near our 18 yard line and Lewis has the opportunity to clear t up pitch but instead decided to turn inside and try to build play the otherway . Would have been fabulous if it had worked but lost the ball in a challenge and they had a clear shot on goal 20 yards out which fortunately fizzed over . Would have been a sucker punch .
This is not a dig,as I love his style of play, just an observation about the risk /reward side of his game
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All of which will also come with experience and dare I say it for the purpose of debate...learn a bit from Surman?
 
Thought Pickford’s distribution was awesome yesterday . Can only imagine the chances Wilson and King would serve up with that kind of supply. .
The whole team switched off for their second ,bit unfair for some players to be singling out Ibe.
Also think the criticism of Cook when he lost the ball on the edge of the box is a little harsh , the ball from Bekovitch didn’t do him any favours although he should have just hoofed it rather than play it out .
 
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Tinpot Club said:
Passing Accuracy Stats

Surman 93%
Gosling 80%
Cook 56%
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As DJ rightly says Cook was only on there for 15min + and Neil Dawson says if you pass the the ball back to the centre backs all the time, hence the difference in pass completion rates. Don't get me wrong I think Surman is great and a calming influence on the whole team but I would have Cook over Gosling and Surman every time.
 
Tinpot Club said:
Passing Accuracy Stats

Surman 93%
Gosling 80%
Cook 56%
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What about Brooks? I thought he constantly gave it away in the first half.

Cook didn't just give it away - he gave in away in suicidal positions twice. Something Surman and Gosling would have been slaughtered for. Cook is an excellent player and probably our best midfielder but people are blinkered to his mistakes.
 
horndean_exile said:
Hmmm those Surman stats would be interesting if they were broken down into forwards/sideways/backwards. I'm NOT having a go at Surman, its just the role of Surman versus Cook is very different, i.e. Surman's play safe role versus Cook's attack.
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Yes but Cook gave it away twice on the edge of our box so writing his stats off because they were all attacking moves is wrong too.
 
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horndean_exile said:
Hmmm those Surman stats would be interesting if they were broken down into forwards/sideways/backwards. I'm NOT having a go at Surman, its just the role of Surman versus Cook is very different, i.e. Surman's play safe role versus Cook's attack.
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Playing devils advocate just for debate...

Is their role all that different? Both play alongside Gosling. Does Gosling change his role? (Incidentally I see on cows he covered the most distance yesterday 12.6km.)

For England Cook also plays deep, same as Surman.
 
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