Match Report and MoM v Wolves

Neil Dawson said:
Same as! If you want to concede possession you have to have a rock solid defence. But really, who wants to concede possession. We started off madly attacking everyone. Eddie tailored that, probably correctly, to madly attacking everyone we could beat. Now we play counter attacking against everyone. We have become really boring. One goal in open play against five teams that included Norwich, Watford and Newcastle. This is not what we were ever about. Couple this with no cup runs and we have just become Pulis without the rock solid defence.
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counter attacking could work any style could work as long as we stop trying to get the perfect goal ( everyone touches the ball 4 times and we keep the ball for 5 minutes and walk the ball into the net) if maybe we tried shooting more from outside of area, and it's getting plain to see without a in form fraser we dont get a inform wilson at the moment boruc would be more effective up front
 
DannyHollandspockets said:
I'm curious Dave. Was this a another game you didn't watch, but defend the players and staff regardless?
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Thank you kindly for your most excellent post. Firstly, if you look at my comments on this game, there isn't much defending of players or management going on. And whether I saw the whole game or not, that has nothing to do with me calling Neil out on that point.

Have a lovely day.
 
Neil Dawson said:
They don’t technically though, we have been through this, they overload the midfield to gain an advantage. It’s how they make the system work for them.

I will give you two quick examples (don’t want to bore everyone to tears ;)) Rico’s man yesterday first half was actually not Traore (which it became because we got pushed back) it was Doherty their wing back. Trouble was at a signal from the skipper Doherty regularly went and stood somewhere else (once even up by Jiminez) but mainly into central midfield.
What was Rico supposed to do here, I don’t have the answer to this btw, some managers would say follow him others would say keep shape. Doherty became the extra man in central midfield where he proceeded to then pass the ball to Traore three times in a row for him to run at Ake with the team all screaming at Rico. Had Rico been given instructions on this? We don’t know... but he won’t have seen anything like it... I haven’t. Occasionally he followed Doherty in and then got screamed at to get back on the wing.

The second scenario was that Doherty would push right up on Ake and Traore would drop right into the middle or even left of the pitch. If you watch the MOTD highlights Cook brings him down in this position having been beat for pace and Billing was also booked bringing him down in a central position. That’s the outnumbered piece I mean because on both those occasions Moutinho and Neves were still in central midfield creating the extra man. Our full backs and Fraser and Wilson stayed much wider.
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Your just describing players doing their jobs well Neil..... Dispute what you're saying Fraser and H Wilson were coming inside every bit as much as Jota or Traroe ....the difference was they were no where near as effective at doing it....Wilson would get outmuscled by Bambi....I have a long standing loathing of the 343 system as you can testify having had numerous discussions on here about it back when you thought it was the bees knees ...also back when you were nodding along to Souness's wittering on about our full backs being far too attack minded....not that there's anything wrong with admitting you're wrong and completely changing your mind of course...quite commendable actually.
I'd have no problem with your suggestion of 433 as it happens but we have to have the personal to do it otherwise it will fail as miserably as 343 did yesterday and as it has for other teams that have tried it.... I'm sure there is a reason why only quality teams are successful with it.... anyway it's worth a try.....but it can't be with Lerma...Cook and Billing in midfield .
 
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Topfarrier said:
Your just describing players doing their jobs well Neil..... Dispute what you're saying Fraser and H Wilson were coming inside every bit as much as Jota or Traroe ....the difference was they were no where near as effective at doing it....Wilson would get outmuscled by Bambi....I have a long standing loathing of the 343 system as you can testify having had numerous discussions on here about it back when you thought it was the bees knees ...also back when you were nodding along to Souness's wittering on about our full backs being far too attack minded....not that there's anything wrong with admitting you're wrong and completely changing your mind of course...quite commendable actually.
I'd have no problem with your suggestion of 433 as it happens but we have to have the personal to do it otherwise it will fail as miserably as 343 did yesterday and as it has for other teams that have tried it.... I'm sure there is a reason why only quality teams are successful with it.... anyway it's worth a try.....but it can't be with Lerma...Cook and Billing in midfield .
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So what changed in the 2nd half with Wilson. First half as you say Bambi would outmuscle him, second half he was terrific, battled for every ball and often held off 2 or 3 defenders with his back to goal to bring in other players. My view is that with Danjuma on the pitch Wilson had better support and an outlet.
 
redharry said:
So what changed in the 2nd half with Wilson. First half as you say Bambi would outmuscle him, second half he was terrific, battled for every ball and often held off 2 or 3 defenders with his back to goal to bring in other players. My view is that with Danjuma on the pitch Wilson had better support and an outlet.
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Sorry I was talking about H Wilson .
 
After 5 or 6 seasons in this division every team becomes Stoke or West Brom and gets relegated.
Except the established 7.
 
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Topfarrier said:
Your just describing players doing their jobs well Neil..... Dispute what you're saying Fraser and H Wilson were coming inside every bit as much as Jota or Traroe ....the difference was they were no where near as effective at doing it....Wilson would get outmuscled by Bambi....I have a long standing loathing of the 343 system as you can testify having had numerous discussions on here about it back when you thought it was the bees knees ...also back when you were nodding along to Souness's wittering on about our full backs being far too attack minded....not that there's anything wrong with admitting you're wrong and completely changing your mind of course...quite commendable actually.
I'd have no problem with your suggestion of 433 as it happens but we have to have the personal to do it otherwise it will fail as miserably as 343 did yesterday and as it has for other teams that have tried it.... I'm sure there is a reason why only quality teams are successful with it.... anyway it's worth a try.....but it can't be with Lerma...Cook and Billing in midfield .
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I think we are in total agreement apart from I think Danjuma or Wilson could play in the number ten role before Brooks gets back and could have been all season. Wilson looks excellent there for Wales and did for Derby. Less defensive responsibility there so would look less light weight as you put it.

As for the other formations I totally agree you have to be able to play them. 3-4-3 I have suggested in years gone by but once I saw that we lacked the ability to play it without moving to a back five I changed my mind. That’s why I think we are better with any formation that starts with four at the back but particularly one that adds the extra midfielder.

Final point, I’m not going to argue whether Wilson and Fraser played inside as much as Jota and Traore because I can’t prove it. To me it looked like they did. However, I can say for certain that Doherty and Jonny moved into the midfield more than Rico and Smith with total certainty. There were two sources of overload not one.
 
DannyHollandspockets said:
That's a no then. Just checking.
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A no I didn't see the whole game, correct - but if you are now saying exiles who can't be in the stadium are the only people who can have a view, that is knocking out a whole ton of people here. It also doesn't mean I am unable to have an opinion on what others say here either. After 35+ years of watching AFCB, I will be buggered if someone like you is going to stop me having a view on things.
 
I remain baffled as to why this team seems only able to play well for one half. It seems like a good first half is always followed by a crap 2nd or vice versa. Why?
 
Neil Dawson said:
I think we are in total agreement apart from I think Danjuma or Wilson could play in the number ten role before Brooks gets back and could have been all season. Wilson looks excellent there for Wales and did for Derby. Less defensive responsibility there so would look less light weight as you put it.

As for the other formations I totally agree you have to be able to play them. 3-4-3 I have suggested in years gone by but once I saw that we lacked the ability to play it without moving to a back five I changed my mind. That’s why I think we are better with any formation that starts with four at the back but particularly one that adds the extra midfielder.

Final point, I’m not going to argue whether Wilson and Fraser played inside as much as Jota and Traore because I can’t prove it. To me it looked like they did. However, I can say for certain that Doherty and Jonny moved into the midfield more than Rico and Smith with total certainty. There were two sources of overload not one.
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I agree regarding Brooks but I'd have reservations about HWilson tbh...it's all very well pointing at his performance in the championship and for Wales but you have to take into account the level of opposition.....anyway no matter what formation we play some of our players are going to have to improve to make any of them work.
 
Johnny Comelately said:
I remain baffled as to why this team seems only able to play well for one half. It seems like a good first half is always followed by a crap 2nd or vice versa. Why?
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To answer my own question with another, is it because we can't cope with teams pressing us? I was watching MOTD last night and someone said , I think about Arsenal, that the manager wants them to play out from the back but they're not good enough. Is that the case with AFCB? We can do it when there's no pressure but when there is we look awful, panicky, disjointed and needing far too long to pick a pass.
 
Eddie is a really nice guy but he needs to bulk out a 'nasty streak'. Seeing players struggling like Franno was he needs to get him off, even early on, and put someone on who could cope better. Loyalty is nice but doesn't win games!
 
Topfarrier said:
Your just describing players doing their jobs well Neil..... Dispute what you're saying Fraser and H Wilson were coming inside every bit as much as Jota or Traroe ....the difference was they were no where near as effective at doing it....Wilson would get outmuscled by Bambi....I have a long standing loathing of the 343 system as you can testify having had numerous discussions on here about it back when you thought it was the bees knees ...also back when you were nodding along to Souness's wittering on about our full backs being far too attack minded....not that there's anything wrong with admitting you're wrong and completely changing your mind of course...quite commendable actually.
I'd have no problem with your suggestion of 433 as it happens but we have to have the personal to do it otherwise it will fail as miserably as 343 did yesterday and as it has for other teams that have tried it.... I'm sure there is a reason why only quality teams are successful with it.... anyway it's worth a try.....but it can't be with Lerma...Cook and Billing in midfield .
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I think this is accurate, Wilson and Fraser were coming inside a lot but just aren’t anywhere near the level of Jota and Adama on the half turn, Fraser in particular is just not the type of player who can adapt his game to play this way. It wasn’t until Danjuma came on that we had an attacker who was comfortable picking the ball up in central positions and carrying the ball down the pitch in a similar manner that Jota and Adama did for them, all of a sudden the opposition had something to think about and it benefitted us immensely. From what I can see he is our only attacking player bar Brooks who is capable of roaming across the line effectively. I genuinely believe we would be so much a better team with him and Brooks playing off of a front man with a midfield three just behind them. The potential is definitely there it just needs to be utilised correctly!
 
Tinpot Club said:
I don’t disagree and I can definitely see how we pushed out full backs high in the Championship (and to an extent) the early PL years.

I could post average position graphs but they mean nothing. It is a little bit sad that Eddie feels the need to include a third defender to deviate from the beloved 4-4-2

We looked a lot more comfortable playing 4-2-3 in the 2nd half. Finally Danjuma showed what a player who’s played a 4-3-3 all his life can do.

I’m not going to blame the formation too much today. Everyone underperformed. I just feel having that extra body on midfield would be so much more beneficial than having an extra CB.

In his post match interview, Eddie himself admitted he got the formation and personnel wrong. Next week at Spurs, let’s get our standard back 4, a three in midfield and build from that base.
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Would quite like 4-2-3-1 Pack mf when defending but numbers up when going forward
 
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