New Kings Park Stadium

Isn’t Brentford an example of what you are arguing against?

I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing about, I took issue with the idea that the club would just come up with the number 20,000 and Foley would spunk £100m on it without any research.

It looks to me like Brentford is a mess. They have a significant problem with away fans in home areas and have 1,000 ST no shows every game. They probably would have built another 3,000 seats themselves if they could have done (obviously not at the expense of the corporate seats) but that would hardly help improve the issues associated with fair weather fans.

Personally I'd like a 30k ground full every week but I'm not the one with the money looking at the market research they have.
 
Yeah sorry, I'm linking into comments I made previously which are buried now.
My theory, for that little that it's worth, is that the optimal size for a ground is one where you're at a very high but not sold out attendance as your capturing everyone who wants to go to games. That headroom is the proof you've made a good choice.

Brentford if not for the extenuating circumstances you've stated would be an example of too small and someone like Darlington would bean example of too big. I couldn't find a good example of a club building too small.

I don't necessarily disagree but the £100m question is what attendance is the sweet spot and do you have half an eye on the massive demand change depending on the division? We all go around the houses with our opinions but I think when you consider 'our level' it's 20k-24k (Swansea to Reading if you like) with an expansion option.
 
I've always felt we never matured into being an established Championship much less an EPL outfit having bypassed that stage so quickly in relative terms. So I'd think that's the level we should pitch ourselves at. I'd love a 30k grandiose statement stadium but it just doesn't sit right. We have to realistically plan for a drop from the EPL until or unless we are hitting top 10 finishes consistently. Up until then, 20k feels right to me. A lovely an unique stadium with potential to adapt would be icing on the cake along with an environmentally sensitive build to win over a wider audience and potentially give the council something extra to flag wave about.
It's great spending other people's money isn't it. Dreaming is free.
Again I agree with most of what you say here with the exception of this argument that it's somehow better to be unambitious and go for a capacity we can definitely fill. This means the capacity is too small. As I have said before it is better to have too much capacity than not enough. So what if we, at some point (as is inevitable) end up in a position where we regularly only half fill a ground. It's always an option, if that were to be the case, to close off sections further away from the pitch to concentrate everyone together and close to the pitch to retain atmos. Anyway all irrelevant it's Bill's money I just hope he is a bit more ambitious with his plans than some on here.
 
I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing about, I took issue with the idea that the club would just come up with the number 20,000 and Foley would spunk £100m on it without any research.

It looks to me like Brentford is a mess. They have a significant problem with away fans in home areas and have 1,000 ST no shows every game. They probably would have built another 3,000 seats themselves if they could have done (obviously not at the expense of the corporate seats) but that would hardly help improve the issues associated with fair weather fans.

Personally I'd like a 30k ground full every week but I'm not the one with the money looking at the market research they have.
We have near on 1000 know shows every week from a capita of 11300, wether that’s season ticket holders or not, I don’t know.
 
I don't necessarily disagree but the £100m question is what attendance is the sweet spot and do you have half an eye on the massive demand change depending on the division? We all go around the houses with our opinions but I think when you consider 'our level' it's 20k-24k (Swansea to Reading if you like) with an expansion option.

I guess the expansion option is key here. "Not much more than 20k" could well mean 22k with all the extra facilities and room to grow to >30k. That puts it pretty much on par with the Amex which (despite my natural aversion to the narrative that everything Brighton does is perfect) would be a good model.

If that's the case I'll save a spot on my shoulder for a Bill Foley tattoo.
 
Our attendences will grow - but remember Southampton and definitely Brighton had lots of fans that couldn't get tickets.

Brighton fans estimated they could have pulled in 15k at a bigger ground in the Withdean days.
 
Our attendences will grow - but remember Southampton and definitely Brighton had lots of fans that couldn't get tickets.

Brighton fans estimated they could have pulled in 15k at a bigger ground in the Withdean days.
Is that 15k home fans...?
We could easily attract 3k away fans week in week out... With that scenario, I think we could def attract another 7k home fans each home games to fill the ground...

I still think around 20k is the 'initial' sweet spot, and I think if we sold out most if not all games, we'd be expanding pretty quick...

It's not my money so if Bill is happy to play the 'let's wait and see' game for a season or so, and pay more to expand than build initially, that's his choice... Whatever we build will be hugely more impressive than what we currently have...
 
Our attendences will grow - but remember Southampton and definitely Brighton had lots of fans that couldn't get tickets.

Brighton fans estimated they could have pulled in 15k at a bigger ground in the Withdean days.

Was going to post the same myself. I remember reading the speculation on NSC many years ago.
 
Is that 15k home fans...?
We could easily attract 3k away fans week in week out... With that scenario, I think we could def attract another 7k home fans each home games to fill the ground...

I still think around 20k is the 'initial' sweet spot, and I think if we sold out most if not all games, we'd be expanding pretty quick...

It's not my money so if Bill is happy to play the 'let's wait and see' game for a season or so, and pay more to expand than build initially, that's his choice... Whatever we build will be hugely more impressive than what we currently have...

Yep 20k seems fine to me.

I was just pointing out that the Dell and Withdean couldn't hold all the fans who wanted to go.

Hopefully we have the same scenario and to the same degree ;)
 
If they have to wait for the new training ground to be finished its going to be a few years before they start work on it. We could be in League one by then.
 
If they have to wait for the new training ground to be finished its going to be a few years before they start work on it. We could be in League one by then.

Training ground complex should be done inside 18 months (or at least to a level where we can move in) according to Foley in the interview.

So between now and then we get the designs drawn up and the permissions and planning put in place and that’s when the build of a new stadium could theoretically begin.
 
Training ground complex should be done inside 18 months (or at least to a level where we can move in) according to Foley in the interview.

So between now and then we get the designs drawn up and the permissions and planning put in place and that’s when the build of a new stadium could theoretically begin.

Not quite. It is a given that the replacement athletic track has to be in place before the existing track can be built over. That project should be done in consultation with the Athletics Club and council (which owns/operates the track). It needs two sets of planning permission: for the running track itself and for the new stadium. That’s because you aren’t going to pay to move the athletics track until you know you can build a new football ground.

As per my earlier post, the proposals for a new athletics track and the new stadium should be sensitive enough to enhance the park and, ideally, would complement each other. For example by facilitating Parkrun and other community events. Ideally I think the new Athletics track and the new stadium should be considered together and not as two separate boxes set down in one park.
 
Last edited:
22 to 25k initially would be my preference. Don't agree with 20k max as that's our limit... to me that may be 'realistic' (but highly debatable) but is borderline limited, unambitious, 'tinpot' mentality.... something I think Bill is looking to shed. Limited, unambitious thinking can then transpire to fabric and ethos of the future of the club.... and only serves to potentially limit growth, aspiration and overall message it sends imo.

Obviously if 25k is much more likely to get rejected, whereas 20k pretty is assured of getting the green light, then 20k makes sense... or other complications that may hinder it happening at all.

Personally I'd much rather take risk of things not going to plan and having to play in a half empty stadium due to relegation and prolongex lower league football, than be too cautious and end up restricted by a cramped stadium, with loads still not able to get in a few years down the line.

The appetite and catchment absolutely is there in Dorset imo, to fill 25k each week. I think Bill is the real deal, and we're on the cusp of something way beyond what we comprehended a decade or so back.

Whether it's 20 or 25k, I think scope for taking capacity over 30k relatively easily will be factored into the architecture.

I also hope the ground comes with some kind of 'flair' character and differentiating features, rather than a basic, identikit bowl that looks like a load of other grounds and is built on a relative shoestring and constructed from lego/mechano. If we're going to build a new structure, I hope we spend a little more ensuring a decent capacity and quality setup that makes us proud... if we're going to build something from scratch, let's do it properly. Not a slightly bigger version of what we pretty much have now.
..

Obviously its not my money, but those are my thoughts and hopes around the project.
 
serious question; isn't the athletics stadium and training ground built on old clay pits which were then used as a corporation dump and filled in with rubbish?
how far down will they have to dig to find something solid?
 

;