non - can't believe no-one else on here picked up this?

House prices now need 5*salary mortgages for first time buyers. Renting has been deregulated and become more costly. The trickle down theory didn't really work.
 
Working class is not easy to define. I consider myself to have a working class background and upbringing. My mum still lives in the council house I was brought up in. My dad worked at a car repair/ respray place so I'd class that as working class. We had no car, used next door's phone and no money for holidays. Statement of fact not a complaint.

Now I have a university education and own a home, or the bank does. Does that make me working or middle class? I'd say the terminology is outdated.

So who are the working class now? There are many in poverty and also inadequate or temporary housing. Many pay huge rent for poor properties. Much is funded by the government for those on benefits. So the landlords are being subsidised by benefits. I'd say that the new working class are those with low or zero income. Those with no work or jobs that don't pay enough to live on.

Something like 40% of council houses bought under right to buy are now privately rented with a higher rent than if they were council houses. People privately renting have no security of tenure nor any of the other benefits of living in council housing, repairs etc. This 40% of properties are no longer available to house people on council waiting lists.

Thatcher wanted a property owning democracy. That was never going to happen, although I think she believed and meant it.

Post war the working class benefited from the NHS and housing along with other benefits of social policy. The 80s saw a generation sacrificed on the altar of financial policy. Many of that generation had no access to work or money. They received no welfare benefits. They were forced to live at home with no money. Everything changed then. The transition from childhood to adulthood got disrupted. A minority never recovered.

Many of this generation are now grandparents and have been habituated into relying on benefits. I worked with school leavers in 1983/83 and saw the frustration and despair from the vast majority who just wanted to work.

Young people leaving school are now funnelled into university accruing a huge debt. Debt that has been sold off to private companies and an increase in interest.

There are a large number who end up in 'apprenticeships' or zero hours jobs. Very few find real long term jobs with security and prospects. Things have changed, I get that. But young people need to feel valued and to value themselves.

Many young people, even those in good jobs, have no chance of owning a home so see sometimes two thirds of their wages going in rent. To landlords, some of whom are letting ex council houses.

Successive Tory governments and their policies have shafted the working classes, or whatever term we use, and will continue to.

It's what they do.
 
MB1980 said:
if 2 people are earning 20k each a year (below the median) and can;t save at least 500 a month towards a deposit...
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£40k per annum is roughly £2k per month. After 20% tax that leaves roughly £1500 per month. Take off £500 and that leaves £500 per person over 4 weeks.

They're all being wasteful, is that right?
 
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MB1980 said:
if 2 people are earning 20k each a year (below the median) and can;t save at least 500 a month towards a deposit...
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£6k a year would help, but less so if property prices increase by over £12k every year.

Time to end the buy-to-let con, reducing prices to where they should be in a fair market and freeing up millions of properties for owner/occupiers.

Not going to happen though, is it?
 
RobTrent said:
£40k per annum is roughly £2k per month. After 20% tax that leaves roughly £1500 per month. Take off £500 and that leaves £500 per person over 4 weeks.

They're all being wasteful, is that right?
Click to expand...

I'd say if you're both earning that a year and your priority is owning your own place, then it is more than possible to make it happen.

That's assuming you're also not motivated/capable to earn more to make it easier, parents can;t make any contribution, plus other variables.
 
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TrevorMorganFanClub said:
£6k a year would help, but less so if property prices increase by over £12k every year.

Time to end the buy-to-let con, reducing prices to where they should be in a fair market and freeing up millions of properties for owner/occupiers.

Not going to happen though, is it?
Click to expand...

house prices at lower end of market (relative to where you live) haven't consistently increased by that much every year and unlikely to continue to do so.
 
MB1980 said:
I'd say if you're both earning that a year and your priority is owning your own place, then it is more than possible to make it happen.

That's assuming you're also not motivated/capable to earn more, parents can;t make any contribution, plus other variables.
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Rather a lot of assumptions and variables.
 
MB1980 said:
if 2 people are earning 20k each a year (below the median) and can;t save at least 500 a month towards a deposit...
Click to expand...

You can try and argue that it's easy for youngsters to buy houses all you want but the evidence is clear. It is much more difficult and as a result first time buyers are getting older all the time. This has a knock-on effect meaning the average wealth for people at certain ages is decreasing as time goes on. Someone with exactly the same job will be poorer at given ages compared to those 10, 20, 30 years older.



https://www.howellslegal.co.uk/news...-Shows-Your-Parents-Definitely-Had-it-Easier-
 
SlowDownDerek said:
You can try and argue that it's easy for youngsters to buy houses all you want but the evidence is clear. It is much more difficult and as a result first time buyers are getting older all the time. This has a knock-on effect meaning the average wealth for people at certain ages is decreasing as time goes on. Someone with exactly the same job will be poorer at given ages compared to those 10, 20, 30 years older.



https://www.howellslegal.co.uk/news...-Shows-Your-Parents-Definitely-Had-it-Easier-
Click to expand...

People are getting married less and later too. More split families require more housing. I think it's a more complex, wider issue than simply looking at house price increases compared to previous generations.
 
MB1980 said:
People are getting married less and later too. More split families require more housing. I think it's a more complex, wider issue than simply looking at house price increases compared to previous generations.
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But all these factors feed into the market in which younger people are operating in. Effectively it all boils down to higher prices relative to wages. Yes there are many different societal factors that cause this but ultimately it boils down to the same thing.

Your mention how two people can afford a house if they play their cards right (and even then probably not a house in most parts of the country) yet go back 40 years and one person could afford a house. That's a huge difference.
 
MB1980 said:
Check your first response for assumptions...

Why do you not feel it's possible given the numbers I've suggested ?(which again, are below the median wage in every county).
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I didn't say it was impossible. But I do think rising house prices are squeezing out first time buyers, added to the fact that us Boomers have snaffled up the market.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
In terms of the original study I think it was eligibility for free school meals that was used as the distinction.
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I would suggest that a different definition is/was needed.

This is purely anecdotal, of course, but here were only half a dozen free school mealers when I attended Hillbourne Junior School and 90%+ of the kids came from Waterloo Estate. Did that make us all middle class? Can't recall anyone on Waterloo having a management job and very few true white collar workers. There was only one Volvo estate on the whole Estate!
 
ErikthViking said:
I would suggest that a different definition is/was needed.

This is purely anecdotal, of course, but here were only half a dozen free school mealers when I attended Hillbourne Junior School and 90%+ of the kids came from Waterloo Estate. Did that make us all middle class? Can't recall anyone on Waterloo having a management job and very few true white collar workers. There was only one Volvo estate on the whole Estate!
Click to expand...

I don't think it's mean as a definition of working or middle class but simply a way of distinguishing the poorest children. Although I wouldn't describe myself as working class these days I would probably fit most definitions yet I also wouldn't have come under this definition.
 
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