Non - House prices

dsr-burnley said:
Unfortunately the government is doing all they can to drive landlords out of the market.

As for house prices, the answer is simple. Build more. There's a lot of house building going on in the town where I live, in Lancashire as you might imagine, and a newbuild 4-bedroom semi goes for about £250k. An older 4-bedroom detached with a gym/playroom lower floor was on the market at £140k and couldn't sell. Because (for no good reason) there aren't that many people want to live here.

If there are too many people in a given area, they need to build more houses. QED. We can waffle round it all we like, but the reason house prices are rising stupidly like they are, is because ultimately too many people are chasing too few houses.
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The biggest barrier to building more houses are the large house building companies, because it is more profitable to obtain sites and planning permission and then slowly release new homes than it is to build at scale and flood the market. There are about a million empty sites with residential planning permission.

A simple solution would be to charge council tax, based on the approved plans, once planning is granted but before the building is completed. This could be on a sliding scale along the lines of Year 1 0%, Year 2 200%, Year 3 300%, Year 4 400%, Year 5 on 500%. That would do a lot to stop land banking.
 
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Sorry Roger said:
The biggest barrier to building more houses are the large house building companies, because it is more profitable to obtain sites and planning permission and then slowly release new homes than it is to build at scale and flood the market. There are about a million empty sites with residential planning permission.

A simple solution would be to charge council tax, based on the approved plans, once planning is granted but before the building is completed. This could be on a sliding scale along the lines of Year 1 0%, Year 2 200%, Year 3 300%, Year 4 400%, Year 5 on 500%. That would do a lot to stop land banking.
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I don't disagree, this is definitely part of the picture.

I would just add that the developers would say there aren't enough contractors and people in the trade to undertake all the building work the country would want, so they can only physically build at a certain pace.

And importing builders from eastern Europe can't be the answer forever, Poland themselves report a shortage of 30,000 workers in their own construction sector currently.

We could do a better job at making trades more attractive to young people and creating a better pathway out of school into trade based education. There's no lack of money in it for people if they want to go down that road, but our system isn't geared up to encourage them.
 
northstandmark said:
And importing builders from eastern Europe can't be the answer forever, Poland themselves report a shortage of 30,000 workers in their own construction sector currently.
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I'm surprised more companies don't use prefabricated builds, though more are now. Last time I was back driving in Springbourne I noticed a few blocks of terraced houses which were prefabricated.
 
Toronto John said:
Agree, there are opportunity costs and we also don't measure the costs of utilities, property taxes, maintenance etc.

My point at its simpleist is that when people get all-in on house prices, they typically see it in short-term optics, when quick fluctuations create headline stories. But over the long-haul, again 6%/year is well above CPI over the 25 years mentioned, but it's not a massive windfall.
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I think you might be viewing through North American lensed glasses. Nothing wrong with that when you live there :) The US in particular has crazy house price fluctuations, far higher than any in the UK where we tend to trend upwards constantly with short term drops for recessions before heading up again.

I bought a house in 1997 for £52k. This house sold last year for £320k. It had not been extended or improved at all in this time other than internal decoration. Thats the sort of rise we have seen in Bournemouth in that time.

Another bought for £284k in 2012 now valued at £595k.

How on earth are new buyers meant to get on the ladder?
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
How on earth are new buyers meant to get on the ladder?
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Even in my day (late 80's) it was rare for an individual to buy a house as a sole buyer. Two newly qualified nurses for example buying a house today could get a mortgage of £266,000. That could get a 3 bed end of terrace in Curzon Road or any one of the other 1000 properties for sale under that price in and around the conurbation. For an individual, yes out of reach for most but that's often been the case.

A 5% deposit is £6k plus each, that's the sticking point I agree and where many gain from the bank of mum and dad etc. However I don't think it's as insurmountable or as difficult as you're making out.

I agree more houses should be built for the first time market however. Having been through the process recently with a family member it's a joke around here.
 
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red_house said:
Even in my day (late 80's) it was rare for an individual to buy a house as a sole buyer. Two newly qualified nurses for example buying a house today could get a mortgage of £266,000. That could get a 3 bed end of terrace in Curzon Road or any one of the other 1000 properties for sale under that price in and around the conurbation. For an individual, yes out of reach for most but that's often been the case.

A 5% deposit is £6k plus each, that's the sticking point I agree and where many gain from the bank of mum and dad etc. However I don't think it's as insurmountable or as difficult as you're making out.

I agree more houses should be built for the first time market however. Having been through the process recently with a family member it's a joke around here.
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Ive just seen that one....bit rich calling that a 3rd bedroom ;) To be fair though, despite needing work its not a bad price.

I would question how two newly qualified nurses with student debt and no deposit could afford that though.. but we've had this conversation before so I know this is from your experience.

In my example, the 3 bed house in 1997 could have been bought by a newly qualified nurse on their own. Except they also wouldnt have had debt as they were paid to train.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
Ive just seen that one....bit rich calling that a 3rd bedroom ;) To be fair though, despite needing work its not a bad price.

I would question how two newly qualified nurses with student debt and no deposit could afford that though.. but we've had this conversation before so I know this is from your experience.

In my example, the 3 bed house in 1997 could have been bought by a newly qualified nurse on their own. Except they also wouldnt have had debt as they were paid to train.
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A quick google suggests in 1997 the starting salary was £11,895 and presumably you couldn't borrow 4.5 times your salary back then. I'm not convinced they could.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
I think you might be viewing through North American lensed glasses. Nothing wrong with that when you live there :) The US in particular has crazy house price fluctuations, far higher than any in the UK where we tend to trend upwards constantly with short term drops for recessions before heading up again.

I bought a house in 1997 for £52k. This house sold last year for £320k. It had not been extended or improved at all in this time other than internal decoration. Thats the sort of rise we have seen in Bournemouth in that time.

Another bought for £284k in 2012 now valued at £595k.

How on earth are new buyers meant to get on the ladder?
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Absolutely, it was meant to just be a simple example that the "noise" around inflation of house prices is sometimes hyperbolic. And of course there are regional disparities and "location location location". You have travelled extensively in the US so I am sure you have seen both the good and the bad.

Toronto and Vancouver are Canadian hot spots for house prices and yet, as I have noted in my own case, the price increase over 25 years has not been exhorbitant.

In your first case, that's six-times growth over 25 years without major renos, so about 8% per year compounded annually. In your second case, it is double over 11 years, so about 6.5% per year.

By comparison, the Toronto Stock Exchange over 25 years is about 6% per year compounded annually ex dividends. I don

I agree that getting started is tough, have no experience on that nor would I want to in today's world.
 
Toronto John said:
Absolutely, it was meant to just be a simple example that the "noise" around inflation of house prices is sometimes hyperbolic. And of course there are regional disparities and "location location location". You have travelled extensively in the US so I am sure you have seen both the good and the bad.

Toronto and Vancouver are Canadian hot spots for house prices and yet, as I have noted in my own case, the price increase over 25 years has not been exhorbitant.

In your first case, that's six-times growth over 25 years without major renos, so about 8% per year compounded annually. In your second case, it is double over 11 years, so about 6.5% per year.

By comparison, the Toronto Stock Exchange over 25 years is about 6% per year compounded annually ex dividends. I don

I agree that getting started is tough, have no experience on that nor would I want to in today's world.
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We drove back out of Toronto through a very nice area. I naively said that we would check back at the hotel how much the houses were, assuming we could sell up and move. They were ridiculously priced. Far higher than around Bournemouth. Crazy prices.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
We drove back out of Toronto through a very nice area. I naively said that we would check back at the hotel how much the houses were, assuming we could sell up and move. They were ridiculously priced. Far higher than around Bournemouth. Crazy prices.
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Yes, Toronto is expensive and low-middle income housing is hard to find. Rents are nuts too. Of course, it is a large city, and very diverse, so attracts a lot of new arrivals. As said above, developers don't want to build 5 new small houses when they can build 1 large one. Older folks are staying in their houses longer, so the inventory doesn't circulate. Our PC Provincial Government (Tory to you guys) is proposing building over greenbelts which is reprehensible. Our Federal Liberal Government is opening the doors to record new arrivals. None of it really adds up.
 
JohnWiddick said:
It's crazy what the government is doing to landlords. And the house prices are off the charts - like seriously, who can afford that? It's so unfair. It's like they don't want us to live in a nice home! So yeah, the answer is to build more houses. But the big house building companies are just land banking and trying to make a quick buck. It's like they're playing monopoly with our lives. We need to do something to stop them.
You know what would be great? To get the perfect house without breaking the bank. That's why I recommend https://doorsdirect2u.co.uk/product-category/french-doors/. They specialize in French doors and you can get amazing discounts and deals.
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I recommend French Letters, less people less housing required
 
turns out the guy who spams footy boards trying to sell the world more shite in the form of windows no-one asked for, greg john waters, runs his own company flogging windows AND is/was a senior buyer at homebase. must just be a coincidence. and some cricket club in surrey deem him fit to be a director and president. worlds gone mad.

and yes, I do have too much time on my hands.

:utc:
 
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RobWells said:
turns out the guy who spams footy boards trying to sell the world more shite in the firm of windows no-one asked for, greg john waters, runs his own company flogging windows AND is/was a senior buyer at homebase. must just be a coincidence. and some cricket club in surrey deem him fit to be a director and president. worlds gone mad.

and yes, I do have too much time on my hands.

:utc:
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Sounds like the new Savvi ( him not you ) : )
 
RobWells said:
turns out the guy who spams footy boards trying to sell the world more shite in the form of windows no-one asked for, greg john waters, runs his own company flogging windows AND is/was a senior buyer at homebase. must just be a coincidence. and some cricket club in surrey deem him fit to be a director and president. worlds gone mad.

and yes, I do have too much time on my hands.

:utc:
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I feel a little bit better for allowing him to slip through the net now. At least he was a genuine spammer... It's the spam bots that are easier to notice and not approve upon registration....although the 100 overnight from Russia is keeping me busy this morning...
 
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