Ryan Christie

Neil Dawson said:
He has changed position though. He always did his best work deep. In that ten position you got a lot of workrate but none of the composure or finishing of Billing or Kluivert.

That was peoples frustration. Deeper he is released from this and his ability in a tight space and workrate works better, nobody questioned that. Crucially it also allows the correct players to shoot and create further forwards.

Comments made historically were made in the context of that, so no less valid in my opinion.
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I don’t agree, as said above, he was rotating with Billing earlier in the season. He’s just now always playing the slightly deeper role.

I know it suits your argument to claim otherwise. But in all honesty, it was plain daft to try and claim he should be dropped when even back then it was evident he was crucial to the way Iraola wanted to play.
 
DJ said:
I don’t agree, as said above, he was rotating with Billing earlier in the season. He’s just now always playing the slightly deeper role.

I know it suits your argument to claim otherwise. But in all honesty, it was plain daft to try and claim he should be dropped when even back then it was evident he was crucial to the way Iraola wanted to play.
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It wasn’t daft. Having chances or key moments land to him and him firing one of his daisy cutters straight at the keeper or overplaying the final pass was costing us. Now he isn’t in the forward line we are creating and scoring.

He didn’t play deep, other than in friendlies and the Arsenal game. Every other game Billing played behind him and it was madness. Iraola has spoken about how he thinks he is a 10 but how he has performed brilliantly in the 8 role since being switched there recently.

It’s a situation that has has improved the team although ultimately cost Billing his place as I don’t think AI sees him as a 10 as he needs his 10’s to press high. You didn’t choose to post this comment below when selecting the ones where others were wrong and you were right.
Neil Dawson said:
My view on Christie has always been the same. He has to play deeper. He did yesterday and was superb. The guys effort, application and ability to get the game going are second to none in our squad. All I’ve ever said is you can’t have someone so bad at finishing or playing the correct final ball in a front three or four. Particularly in a side that doesn’t score a lot in a league that doesn’t offer much up.

I won’t ever change my mind on that unless he starts demonstrating composure and a finish. Am I happy for him to start every week in the position he did yesterday… 100% I am.
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Neil Dawson said:
It wasn’t daft. Having chances or key moments land to him and him firing one of his daisy cutters straight at the keeper or overplaying the final pass was costing us. Now he isn’t in the forward line we are creating and scoring.

He didn’t play deep, other than in friendlies and the Arsenal game. Every other game Billing played behind him and it was madness. Iraola has spoken about how he thinks he is a 10 but how he has performed brilliantly in the 8 role since being switched there recently.

It’s a situation that has has improved the team although ultimately cost Billing his place as I don’t think AI sees him as a 10 as he needs his 10’s to press high. You didn’t choose to post this comment below when selecting the ones where others were wrong and you were right.
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It was daft, you used to use him as part of your axe to grind on recruitment post Howe. You’d shoe horn in little digs at Christie despite being one of the best players on the pitch as it matched this argument.

He did indeed rotate rolls with Billing during games as was mentioned at the time. It was maybe subtle, 10 minute spells etc. Bit like Kluivert as the 9 and Solanke wide and deeper in the Villa game. But it happened and it happened very frequently.

There would have been games where he played as an out and out number 10. But the majority of games before Newcastle he rotated with Billing and/or covered the deeper ground similar to now.

So his contribution has been key, all season.
 
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DJ said:
It was daft, you used to use him as part of your axe to grind on recruitment post Howe. You’d shoe horn in little digs at Christie despite being one of the best players on the pitch as it matched this argument.

He did indeed rotate rolls with Billing during games as was mentioned at the time. It was maybe subtle, 10 minute spells etc. Bit like Kluivert as the 9 and Solanke wide and deeper in the Villa game. But it happened and it happened very frequently.

There would have been games where he played as an out and out number 10. But the majority of games before Newcastle he rotated with Billing and/or covered the deeper ground similar to now.

So his contribution has been key, all season.
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I'm sure people could bend this in whichever way they want! But....

Here is Ryan Christie's average position and Phil Bill's by game week. So 1 = W Ham at home, and 15 = Palace away.

Data from OPTA via fantasy football scout

RC and PB position.png
 
Matt Stevenson said:
I'm sure people could bend this in whichever way they want! But....

Here is Ryan Christie's average position and Phil Bill's by game week. So 1 = W Ham at home, and 15 = Palace away.

Data from OPTA via fantasy football scout

View attachment 12610
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The individual average position diagrams you've put on the stats threads would appear to support DJs view that they have interchanged in a lot of games and Christie has played advanced in others. There are 3 or four games in that poor early run where Billings' average position is ahead of Christie, particularly away games.
 
DJ said:
It was daft, you used to use him as part of your axe to grind on recruitment post Howe. You’d shoe horn in little digs at Christie despite being one of the best players on the pitch as it matched this argument.

He did indeed rotate rolls with Billing during games as was mentioned at the time. It was maybe subtle, 10 minute spells etc. Bit like Kluivert as the 9 and Solanke wide and deeper in the Villa game. But it happened.
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Ok he did swap in game to cover Billing… And Marcus Browning played in goal…

Our manager, the media and 99% of fans are talking about his reinvention in a new position for a reason. It’s a new thing.

Christie’s work rate has never been questioned. It was his final moment delivery and decisions, like his shooting, that rash challenge for the pen v Arsenal and some of his final balls that were costing us. This new change of position that several people advocated means we are now seeing the absolute best in him.

Something to be pleased about not argue about surely?
 
Matt Stevenson said:
I'm sure people could bend this in whichever way they want! But....

Here is Ryan Christie's average position and Phil Bill's by game week. So 1 = W Ham at home, and 15 = Palace away.

Data from OPTA via fantasy football scout

View attachment 12610
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Doesn’t this need to be seen in the context of everyone’s position? It seems to me (but I may be wrong) like the whole team is higher in this change of form therefore anyone staying the same is technically deeper?

It just seems odd that our manager is talking about Christie’s transition from the advanced 10 to a deeper 8 but some people are disputing it. It seems really obvious to me he is playing a different role. It was even highlighted on MOTD last night
 
I see them as essentially the same on average with Christie a little bias right and Billing a little bias left (in attack, opposite to the charts). I wonder if a statistical test would show them differing.
 
Kicks_On_66 said:
I see them as essentially the same on average with Christie a little bias right and Billing a little bias left (in attack, opposite to the charts). I wonder if a statistical test would show them differing.
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In this current run of form it’s only really the relative positions of Kliuvert and Christie that matter. Maybe Phil was dropped because he wasn’t pressing high enough?
 
Neil Dawson said:
Ok he did swap in game to cover Billing… And Marcus Browning played in goal…
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Very dismissive to try and hide the point. A one off incident that hasn’t happened again in over a decade is of course exactly the same as something that happened on a game by game basis.




Neil Dawson said:
Neil Dawson said:
This new change of position that several people advocated means we are now seeing the absolute best in him.

Something to be pleased about not argue about surely?
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There’s a massive difference between “now seeing the absolute best in him” and advocating for him to be dropped despite being key to how the new manager wanted the side to operate.

Neil Dawson said:
Neil Dawson said:
some people are disputing it. It seems really obvious to me he is playing a different role.
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No one is arguing this. The debate is trying to claim the difference is night and day. Christie played the role he’s playing now during phases of games previously. He’s now playing it more often.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Doesn’t this need to be seen in the context of everyone’s position? It seems to me (but I may be wrong) like the whole team is higher in this change of form therefore anyone staying the same is technically deeper?

It just seems odd that our manager is talking about Christie’s transition from the advanced 10 to a deeper 8 but some people are disputing it. It seems really obvious to me he is playing a different role. It was even highlighted on MOTD last night
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Yes, but it wasn't easy to pull out all the positions, although I think SDD has gone back to look at the individual positions per game (which are all on the stats thread). As the discussion seemed to be concentrating on Christie and Billing their relative positions were the most relevant.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Ok he did swap in game to cover Billing… And Marcus Browning played in goal…

Our manager, the media and 99% of fans are talking about his reinvention in a new position for a reason. It’s a new thing.

Christie’s work rate has never been questioned. It was his final moment delivery and decisions, like his shooting, that rash challenge for the pen v Arsenal and some of his final balls that were costing us. This new change of position that several people advocated means we are now seeing the absolute best in him.

Something to be pleased about not argue about surely?
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Like his final ball to Semenyo on Sunday?
 
Matt Stevenson said:
Yes, but it wasn't easy to pull out all the positions, although I think SDD has gone back to look at the individual positions per game (which are all on the stats thread). As the discussion seemed to be concentrating on Christie and Billing their relative positions were the most relevant.
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Yes I see that. I’m also not bothered as it’s clear as the nose on our faces that Christie is playing a different role, although this may be down to where Kluivert is playing v Billing…
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Like his final ball to Semenyo on Sunday?
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Yes. Taken as an individual moment. Billing did the same in a few mins on the pitch yesterday.

In reality though Christie has scored 1 goal and 3 assists in 47 PL games which are indefensible stats for a front four player. Now as a back six player it’s totally different.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Yes I see that. I’m also not bothered as it’s clear as the nose on our faces that Christie is playing a different role, although this may be down to where Kluivert is playing v Billing…
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Kluivert and Billing are definitely playing the number 10 role different that’s for sure.

The key aspect of this is that Kluivert rotates with the wingers as he floats around across the entire width of the pitch.

Billing operates mainly centrally and thus rotated with Christie.

Justin Kluivert

Most of them. Only most? So some are correct, knew you knew it Rob :grinning:
bournemouth-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk
 
This argument is really weird. Christie was playing as a number ten, he’s now playing as an out and out central midfielder. It’s clear as day that he’s playing a very different role to the one that he played earlier in the season, and that the team is looking a lot better for it!
 
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