The Abuse of Kelly v3

zigger zaggar said:
Yeah and Tavs was left (wing)back, Kelly was left side of three centre backs.
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That's not how I saw it. We started with a ba k four same as our last few home games. Kelly just sits deeper and doesn't get forward as much as Smith. He tucks in when smith goes forward too.
 
afcdibby said:
I’m with you on this. I didn’t hear any substitutions in a negative way.
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So what? Lots of people did. Lots of people didn’t. What does it even matter, if you didn’t hear it then you have nothing to contribute to this conversation, treat it as a “non”. If you did hear it and don’t care or think it’s a problem, fair enough.
Druss_the_Legend said:
Dont think you are at all. I was pointing out that literally 4 different posters on the front page who sit in the middle of the North stand didnt hear it so to me it was localised moaning which happens in every game about every player. If it worrys you cool...but if I created a post for what was said by people around me after each goal we would be here creating posts all night.. I dont get that there is a Kelly witch hunt.
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I just don’t think it was localised moaning though. It wasn’t the people in my immediate vicinity, and it was pretty damn loud. I have tried to concede that it wasn’t a majority, and that it could well have been a small number of people making a lot of noise. But we’ve had a fair number of people from different stands and in the north stand saying that they heard it too. I sit directly behind the goal on the right hand side, about halfway up the stand, and heard it.

To be clear, my observation was just the above. It’s my subjective opinion that Kelly is overly criticised and harshly criticised by the crowd in comparison to other players. That’s entirely subjective, it’s fair if you disagree. But the reason I made the thread was that it was very loud. I’m actually surprised that it’s been this divisive on here because I thought it was clear as day and very loud. It’s interesting that there’s so much of a debate around whether anything even happened tbh.

I feel like I’ve been pretty open to the idea that people might’ve missed it, whereas you’re just kind of insinuating that I’m wrong and that nothing happened. You’re not a fan of Kelly, and if you’ve not heard what I’m talking about then I’m sure it’s probably quite annoying to read and sounds melodramatic when him being “unfairly criticised” comes up as a topic. But it seems the majority on this thread know exactly what I’m talking about so idk what else to say about it really. We’ll just agree to disagree.
 
NWCherries98 said:
So what? Lots of people did. Lots of people didn’t. What does it even matter, if you didn’t hear it then you have nothing to contribute to this conversation, treat it as a “non”. If you did hear it and don’t care or think it’s a problem, fair enough.


I just don’t think it was localised moaning though. It wasn’t the people in my immediate vicinity, and it was pretty damn loud. I have tried to concede that it wasn’t a majority, and that it could well have been a small number of people making a lot of noise. But we’ve had a fair number of people from different stands and in the north stand saying that they heard it too. I sit directly behind the goal on the right hand side, about halfway up the stand, and heard it.

To be clear, my observation was just the above. It’s my subjective opinion that Kelly is overly criticised and harshly criticised by the crowd in comparison to other players. That’s entirely subjective, it’s fair if you disagree. But the reason I made the thread was that it was very loud. I’m actually surprised that it’s been this divisive on here because I thought it was clear as day and very loud. It’s interesting that there’s so much of a debate around whether anything even happened tbh.

I feel like I’ve been pretty open to the idea that people might’ve missed it, whereas you’re just kind of insinuating that I’m wrong and that nothing happened. You’re not a fan of Kelly, and if you’ve not heard what I’m talking about then I’m sure it’s probably quite annoying to read and sounds melodramatic when him being “unfairly criticised” comes up as a topic. But it seems the majority on this thread know exactly what I’m talking about so idk what else to say about it really. We’ll just agree to disagree.
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Not sure the majority agree with you. Most of those sat in the north stand heard nothing like me. I think Neil's post summed it up best.

Just think it's a mountain out of a molehill because a couple of guys near you made a comment about him. Let's not suggest half our fans deserve relegation as has been said on this thread.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
That's not how I saw it. We started with a ba k four same as our last few home games. Kelly just sits deeper and doesn't get forward as much as Smith. He tucks in when smith goes forward too.
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Fair enough that may not be how you saw it Del but that was the official line-up another back 5 and that's how I saw it. Either way he was dogshite and shouldn't have started ahead of Vina.
 
zigger zaggar said:
Fair enough that may not be how you saw it Del but that was the official line-up another back 5 and that's how I saw it. Either way he was dogshite and shouldn't have started ahead of Vina.
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He was poor. He's been alright recently so not sure you can knock oneil for starting him.
 
Kelly looks shot of any confidence and half the time he looks completely lost. Irrespective he shouldn’t be booed, not only is that unfair and out of order, it’s certainly not going to help restore his confidence either so it’s counterintuitive.
 
It's hard to believe people actually did booing of a player one f√cking week after the Spurs victory.

As an exile, I wasn't there so can't comment as to whether it happened or not...but why would it be mentioned if it didn't. !
But .. this game was against a team in some form - Spurs obviously aint..so in effect Boscombe still have major problems in their setting up considerations against some team types...as have at least half of all teams across the leagues...every week - the losers !
I've always been a critic of Boscombe crowds..imo they can be so fickle and not consistently noisy enough...some clubs are , some are not, especially in the South...as evolved ..in my world you bawl encouragement at a player(s) non-stop throughout a game...if at some point you feel that you haven't got the capacity to do so because your so deflated of spirit then it's ok to vacate at that point...you have paid your money to rightly do as you wish.
I remember when yer Northampton's and Bristol City's would take the turf at DC with 11 Kray and Frankie Fraser squash - nosed lookalikes, 60's forerunners of yer long ball/ hoofball purveyors.. and you knew Boscombe's dwarfs and midgets - Tony Priscottesque ball flickers etcetera would capitulate...but you still shouted yer throat out.
F√cking Northampton - every year without fail Dad would take me to watch the f√ckers get off their transport to enter the main stand - shaking his head in combined disgust and awe at their size ! John Kurila the Gorilla was one...6 foot four stood in a pothole, shoulders like the Boulder Dam in Colorado.. the tw@t was a carpenter on a building site during the summer months and was brought up in the Gorbals , Glasgow - his dad was a Lithuanian weight - lifter..he also played for Colchester when they beat Leeds in the FA Cup..legend has it he told Norman Hunter he'd chew his ears off if he got too close !
Those hard men loved Dean Court...it's how we never got promotion in the 60s...we always signed skinny surfers and ice skaters -you'd spot them on the beach or down the ice - rink in the summer !
 
Old Cherry said:
It's hard to believe people actually did booing of a player one f√cking week after the Spurs victory.

As an exile, I wasn't there so can't comment as to whether it happened or not...but why would it be mentioned if it didn't. !
But .. this game was against a team in some form - Spurs obviously aint..so in effect Boscombe still have major problems in their setting up considerations against some team types...as have at least half of all teams across the leagues...every week - the losers !
I've always been a critic of Boscombe crowds..imo they can be so fickle and not consistently noisy enough...some clubs are , some are not, especially in the South...as evolved ..in my world you bawl encouragement at a player(s) non-stop throughout a game...if at some point you feel that you haven't got the capacity to do so because your so deflated of spirit then it's ok to vacate at that point...you have paid your money to rightly do as you wish.
I remember when yer Northampton's and Bristol City's would take the turf at DC with 11 Kray and Frankie Fraser squash - nosed lookalikes, 60's forerunners of yer long ball/ hoofball purveyors.. and you knew Boscombe's dwarfs and midgets - Tony Priscottesque ball flickers etcetera would capitulate...but you still shouted yer throat out.
F√cking Northampton - every year without fail Dad would take me to watch the f√ckers get off their transport to enter the main stand - shaking his head in combined disgust and awe at their size ! John Kurila the Gorilla was one...6 foot four stood in a pothole, shoulders like the Boulder Dam in Colorado.. the tw@t was a carpenter on a building site during the summer months and was brought up in the Gorbals , Glasgow - his dad was a Lithuanian weight - lifter..he also played for Colchester when they beat Leeds in the FA Cup..legend has it he told Norman Hunter he'd chew his ears off if he got too close !
Those hard men loved Dean Court...it's how we never got promotion in the 60s...we always signed skinny surfers and ice skaters -you'd spot them on the beach or down the ice - rink in the summer !
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'The gorillla' :D.

But yes agree mate.

Perhaps Kelly should move on in the summer. Some may see it as running away, but I wouldn't blame him one bit... he doesn't deserve it, and although it may only be pockets, unless he starts scoring overhead kicks in cup finals, or similar, this kind of thing will keep reoccurring here for him now.

I thought booing earlier in the year was perhaps down to the abysmal run the team was on, but as Old Cherry mentioned, on the back of a win at Spurs and otherwise very good form (for us), shows his cards are marked.

Fickle supporters... idiots tbh. One thing showing disappointment at the team as whole, but not one player imo... particularly one who is young, shows potential and has generally been decent for us.

I was a bit p1ssed off with Zemura situation, but these kind of things make me reconsider and you can't blame players for becoming more mercenary... when you could possibly homed in on next by 'supporters' if you/the team have a few bad games. Particularly when you've actually played well for sustained periods before.

As for them still being paid, and paid well, that is true of course and no doubt it does help sharpen the mind/raise players game at times (@Neil Dawson ), but I assume most fans dont know if it will have a positive or negative effect. They're paid a lot of money, but it's not like they've dug roads, worked in an office, as a binman for years before becoming a pro footballer earning shed loads more, doing something they love, so their perspective is totally different, so i dont buy the 'well they still get paid loads'. So to them being singled out, treated like that by their own fans, after generally playing well could play on their minds. Depending on players character, that may elicit a positive/negative response...
 
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To be honest we have some deplorable fans as is the same with every club…luckily the vast majority support the team through thick and thin and especially show their qualities when things are not going so well.
Yes it’s football and we will all in our heads have opinions on individual players some we rate and like and some not so good and probably don’t like much?
Trouble is once some get a notion that a player is no use they rarely change their minds!
I’m like that but don’t hurl dogs abuse or boo them while they are wearing the AFCB shirt…because every player has his good days and bad days that is the same for all of us in our jobs…
 
Kelly , not for the first time, was bl00dy awful. When he came back from injury he was shoehorned into the side immediately and since has mainly struggled . Everything with Kelly is negative . Backwards and sideways. Slow and ponderous. We are at a crunch time of the season where every performance and point counts. We haven't got to time to mollycoddle players who may be lacking confidence. We need to drop them out of the team and replace them with someone who is up for the challenge. Kelly's performance yesterday affected the performances of other players. Tavs for example who had a much quieter game. I'd say that Stephens realised pretty quickly that Kelly was having one of his meltdown games and therefore keeping one eye on Kelly took away from his own performance. If Kelly doesn't have confidence in himself then how much confidence have the other players got in him? At this stage of the season aswell . Needs dropping but like other players in our starting 11 he can be as **************** as he wants, fail at his job but still get picked. I personally couldn't give a toss if a few people showed their frustrations and booed him or jeered him. The best way to answer the critics is to prove them wrong . Its a shame but Kelly just proves them right more often than not.
 
One thing not often discussed is - how players would be affected by what is said about them on the Internet...anywhere on it...Twitter , FB..this Forum. ..and don't insult my intelligence by saying it doesn't happen because players avoid it, having been told not to by a manager or anyone..i.e. " it's not a good policy to read the critics...just get your head down and do the job"
There's no way it doesn't filter through to them from friends and family.. .and if you are told not to do something...you do it....especially at that age !
For some types of character it will crucify them , their career.
And this isn't 1965 when the Newspaper Press was relatively mild.
Last night Online there were weird monkeys saying that Manu beat Brighton ' because Maguire was 'nowhere near the pitch'... not because they were dead lucky...but that's THAT clubs fans.. the very worst alongside many stupid England diehards.
This is the modern fan....sheeplike and thick ( and elitist,) ..we have several on here...and No I won't 'name them''..you can work it out from my posts.
I've banged on about the Gosling and Francis situations before..and Surridge and Yems...and JT....the 'sheep factor' is so so prevalent .
We had the ' Howe Out' pocket scenarios !
Look at the bugger now !
I'm not saying you can't boo or criticise....but the effects must be considered when summarising a seasons outcomes .
 
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Red_till_im_ded said:
Oh come on. Some light booing at half time and a spattering of applause at Kelly being subbed. So what? He was fcuking awful today and a few supporters let him ( and the team ) know. What a soft bunch of cnuts you lot are. Bless little Lloyd , might hurt his feelings as we crumble to a woeful 4-0 home defeat. Aren't supporters allowed to show emotion? Aren't supporters allowed to show their feelings and frustrations?
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I think the clue is in the word supporter
 
If a players 'attitude' is all wrong. ..then that is a vastly different scenario. I don't think we have any like that in the squad currently.
If it's only mistakes that produce the adverse results...then our Support has to just ride with that...thats all about quality...the resources that are available.. .not even all this xG analysis and other stats is going to change that overnight !
 
RobTrent said:
I think the clue is in the word supporter
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I'm sure we're both on the same page as what constitutes a supporter but obviously with the exception of how a supporter should act if they aren't happy. I don't have an issue with supporters booing a player if they so feel or booing the team at the end of that's what they want to do. If that's how they feel at that moment in time. This whole attitude of not showing players how you feel or your frustrations because it may hurt their feelings is ridiculous and it certainly doesn't make a supporter any less of a supporter than someone who doesn't.
 
Red_till_im_ded said:
I'm sure we're both on the same page as what constitutes a supporter but obviously with the exception of how a supporter should act if they aren't happy. I don't have an issue with supporters booing a player if they so feel or booing the team at the end of that's what they want to do. If that's how they feel at that moment in time. This whole attitude of not showing players how you feel or your frustrations because it may hurt their feelings is ridiculous and it certainly doesn't make a supporter any less of a supporter than someone who doesn't.
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It's not about hurting their feelings it's about hurting the team's chances of winning.
 
BTID1992 said:
If you boo or have booed our team or any of our players at any point don’t bother fucking coming to any games. Honestly what is the point, we are there to support the team how is that ever going to help. I’ve been reading this forum for around 11/12 years but rarely ever comment but people booing Kelly and booing at HT/FT literally do one! We defended very poorly in the first half for 3 crosses (2 corners, 1 in play cross) and that is the difference. It’s fine margins in football and we didn’t honestly play that badly today attacking wise but West Ham were very organised and Moyes is a Wiley old fox and knew to stop us through the middle. Also as I’m posting probably my 1 post every 2 years the negativity around O’Neill and the whole sack the manger culture in general in football nowadays is a joke. O’Neill has done a great job this season with (on paper) the worst squad in the league before the end of the January window and Dec/Jan time when we did have a massive dip in form/performances without key players like Tavs and Dom. Since Jan with players back fit and new signings we have had mid table form. Yes it is frustrating that we are very poor at defending set pieces but he has got a lot right and deserves a lot of credit. I honestly thinking that around 90% of managers we would have got in otherwise would not have done a better job. Just really don’t like how a lot of our “fans” act now!
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Didn't boo, personally, I don't agree with it, it's counterproductive. I understand why it happens though, sometimes I disagree with it happening sometimes I'm nonplussed.

I did however realise that at full time I wasn't clapping the players. I simply couldn't be bothered. There were plenty around me who were, including my son, so I am pleased the players did at least acknowledge them and not just bolt for the tunnel.
 
NWCherries98 said:
It wasn’t literal booing, it was the sarcastic jeering when he was subbed off that I was referring to (alongside the usual comments and intense abuse reserved only for Kelly it seems). Booing is quicker to type than “sarcastic jeering”, but this seems to be tripping everyone up.

Lots of people apparently didn’t pick up on it across the ground. I didn’t think it would cause this much of a debate tbh. If you didn’t hear it then fair enough.
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This is a weird one to argue. It was perfectly audible from my seat in the main stand. We've had discussions about how sound travels within the stadium. This is another fine example of that.
 
DJ said:
Didn't boo, personally, I don't agree with it, it's counterproductive. I understand why it happens though, sometimes I disagree with it happening sometimes I'm nonplussed.

I did however realise that at full time I wasn't clapping the players. I simply couldn't be bothered. There were plenty around me who were, including my son, so I am pleased the players did at least acknowledge them and not just bolt for the tunnel.
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I was quite surprised by the proportion of fans who clapped the team off at FT. Only a muted boo too. I think most of the natural booers had buggered off already.
 
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