The Abuse of Kelly v3

Neil Dawson said:
No. We wanted to give Kerkez a rest and Kelly the only other player that can play left back. That’s blindingly obvious I would have thought.
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Ah! ok so when Kelly is dropped or not on the pitch there is an excuse. When Senesi is not started its becuase hes just not good enough. Good to know, thanks.

Quick question, why, when AI was changing the game and bringing first team players on, did he not remove the terrible Senesi and simply move Kelly over?
 
Neil Dawson said:
I’ve not said they are terrible signings. As with your assertion they are exciting only time will tell on that. I’ve said they aren’t worth what we’ve paid for them and better recruiters would have found cheaper alternatives that wouldn’t have risked our future as much and built a more balanced squad. Six right wingers and one left back and one injury prone defensive midfielder for example…

I do care if it all ends in tears. So we differ there. I’ve sat under the stand counting buckets of 2p coins after games so our kids had a club to follow so maybe I’m over sensitive to it.

I also know we can’t effect it. But that’s 90% of fans forum content wiped out. Last time I looked we couldn’t influence what left winger starts but all over the world people like to talk about it.

Anyway we are going off thread again and will get told off! Hope that’s answered your points enough for us to leave the discussion.
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Not sure you find good value in January - always a seller’s market. Thus always pay a premium. Having said that, semenyo starting to look very good value and Jackson would have been 2/3 the price Chelsea paid so we must be doing some things right.

Brighton and Brentford are excellent at finding bargains due to the level of investment they have made; afcb and most clubs including top clubs are playing catch up.

You constantly criticise but thought tavernier was a bargain - we didn’t overpay for him. Need to acknowledge the good and the bad sometimes otherwise you look a bit desperate to make your point.
 
Nevillez66 said:
So you're using the fact that he used to be a professional footballer against him in this argument......interesting
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Not using it against him at all. There’s some good footballers who have become technical directors… Man City have one although he didn’t play for Man City. If the very best technical director for us was already in the building it was a remarkable coincidence.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Then what was your point? They paid £20m odd for a promising player like we have.
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My point was they remembered him playing well against them and signed him. Contrary to the obsession from a few on here that it’s their mystical computer programme that makes them successful at recruitment.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
Ah! ok so when Kelly is dropped or not on the pitch there is an excuse. When Senesi is not started its becuase hes just not good enough. Good to know, thanks.

Quick question, why, when AI was changing the game and bringing first team players on, did he not remove the terrible Senesi and simply move Kelly over?
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You don’t unsettle cb partnerships mid game unless you have to and he wanted Kelly fit for Saturday so always planned to give him and Kerkez 45 mins. Senesi good to play 90 as we won’t be starting him.
 
AFCBade said:
You constantly criticise but thought tavernier was a bargain - we didn’t overpay for him. Need to acknowledge the good and the bad sometimes
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I do. I’ve always said Tavs was an excellent signing and I’ve just said I think Kerkez and potentially Scott could be those players that help us with FPP by being sold on for big fees. Don’t believe the fanboys, I’m very balanced.
 
Neil Dawson said:
You don’t unsettle cb partnerships mid game unless you have to and he wanted Kelly fit for Saturday?
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Ah! Ok. So he unsettled full backs, wingers, midfielders and strikers but not central defenders. And when Kelly is dropped or subbed hes being "rested" but when Senesi us dropped its becuase he is not good enough. Love it.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Well we will see.
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Using that logic, Semenyo and Kluivert are are first choice based on selection in the last 2 matches but you said earlier that Anthony and Brooks starting the season meant they are first choice. Its almost like you havent got a clue how your own logic works or you just talk rubbish to try to give your contradictory views validation.
 
Neil Dawson said:
My point was they remembered him playing well against them and signed him. Contrary to the obsession from a few on here that it’s their mystical computer programme that makes them successful at recruitment.
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Yeah Neil, they watched him in one game and immediately wrote a cheque for £23m because they liked what they saw. No detailed analysis for him or any of their other signings.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Not using it against him at all. There’s some good footballers who have become technical directors… Man City have one although he didn’t play for Man City. If the very best technical director for us was already in the building it was a remarkable coincidence.
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So, by that assessment, it's the club for not hiring the very best available recruitment team that you have the problem with rather than Mr Blake and Mr Hughes who ended up with the job.

Well, if that's the case, I look forward to a Vitals where the slightest issue isn't in some way engineered back your anti Blake/Hughes narrative and put down to poor recruitment.

I'm not a fan boy of theirs, I just don't understand the nature of your clear agenda against them. They will never get everything right, but the gleeful pouncing upon someone they signed having a bad game....or half in the case of Traore yesterday, just becomes rather tiresome.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Yeah Neil, they watched him in one game and immediately wrote a cheque for £23m because they liked what they saw. No detailed analysis for him or any of their other signings.
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No. They watched him play well against them and then did the analysis. Like every other club. He wasn’t magicked out of Peru as a 15 year old because some geek worked out his tackling stats on a secret super computer the size of a warehouse like some people would have you believe when saying it can’t be emulated.
 
Neil Dawson said:
No. They watched him play well against them and then did the analysis. Like every other club. He wasn’t magicked out of Peru as a 15 year old because some geek worked out his tackling stats on a secret super computer the size of a warehouse like some people would have you believe when saying it can’t be emulated.
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Not the best time to be making this sort of argument given that Brighton just paid £23 million for a teenage midfielder who has played fewer than 500 minutes of first team football.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Excellent post. I can see Kerkez going for big money once he sorts out defensive concentration which will come. Big hopes for Scott too. I think we seem to gradually be getting better at recruitment and this window has been better than the winter one. I don’t think we will get our money back on Outtara, Zab or Traore but can see it on Kerkez and like the potential of Scott.

Too much is made of Brentford and Brightons bloody metrics. Brentford’s Collins has been outstanding for them in their first few games and they signed him from Wolves because he was excellent against them in the 1-1 draw at Brentford last year and they kept tabs on him. You don’t need excel skills and a betting company for that. You just need professional recruiters.
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Thanks. Think it’s more fun to have a bit of a dialogue about stuff like this.

I feel like we’re trying to go for a pretty standard “elite selling club” approach. And rather than slowly building it up organically, Foley has thrown his money around to jump start us in this direction. We could well have focused on signing hidden gems like Brighton, but the tricky thing is, they’re hidden. We did tbf identify Nico Jackson ahead of everyone else, and he’s being lauded by every pundit as the next big striker. Ultimately, we’ll never really know who we’ve looked at and which signings got away or weren’t pursued.

I think short term, it’s very risky for us to have signed priority position players like Adams and Scott injured. It does put AI in a tricky position. But then, I suppose they felt it was an opportunity to get players that would usually be out of our reach potentially?

We might not make a profit on any of those players, no. But they might stay for 3-4 years and together make valuable contributions that keep the momentum of the club up. We never made our money back on Lerma, but he played his part. I can see Ouattara and Traore doing this. I can actually see Zab improving with time and being sold for big money, but I might be wrong there.

Collins was a good buy for Brentford, it seems so far. Didn’t work out at Wolves in the end and he’s now starting for Brentford and looking pretty good. I know this is probably more meant to be an example to be analogous to your overall point, but personally I don’t think this is necessarily proof that our recruiters are considerably worse than theirs. Brentford already had a lot of quality in CB, and they’ve spent 24 ish million on a younger option for depth and to start. We, by contrast, have quite a bit of depth in CAM/Wings, but still signed Traore for £22 million. We differ on how good he is, but for me, this is similarly good squad building in a different area of the pitch.
 
Neil Dawson said:
No. They watched him play well against them and then did the analysis. Like every other club. He wasn’t magicked out of Peru as a 15 year old because some geek worked out his tackling stats on a secret super computer the size of a warehouse like some people would have you believe when saying it can’t be emulated.
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Yes but as you've admitted we have signed players on that basis and ones who are just as expensive and have just as much potential. Brighton have also signed players for relatively large fees from established clubs. Both club have also had stinkers like every other club. It is not these signings that set Brighton and Brentford apart is it - it's the obscure ones that come as the result of their unique analysis that everyone in football is racing about.
 
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