The right back situation

[KingKieffer]

Senesi, Brooks, Cook and Mepham….?!

Cook yes, definitely.

Mepham and Senesi are good players but we obviously need someone more dominant in the air too.

Brooks might need regular football to get back to his level, can we offer that here?

I think some fans are struggling with the idea that we might need to be cut throat this summer to give ourselves the best possible chance next season. Lewis Cook has never really looked like he can perform to the level required in the PL on a consistent basis, even more so after the injuries. He needs to be moved on really. Brooks might not be the player that he was, we can’t keep him here just based on what he’s been through. If he is to stay then it needs to be because he is ready and able to contribute on a weekly basis to the level required. It might be that we need to make the difficult decision to get him a loan move before he can contribute for us again. Quite a big part of the reason we got relegated last time was because we held on to too many players for the wrong reasons, we need to learn to be brutal with these decisions. We’re not a charity, the only goal is to be as successful as possible.

 

[Red_Kettle]

Cook yes, definitely.

Mepham and Senesi are good players but we obviously need someone more dominant in the air too.

Brooks might need regular football to get back to his level, can we offer that here?

I think some fans are struggling with the idea that we might need to be cut throat this summer to give ourselves the best possible chance next season. Lewis Cook has never really looked like he can perform to the level required in the PL on a consistent basis, even more so after the injuries. He needs to be moved on really. Brooks might not be the player that he was, we can’t keep him here just based on what he’s been through. If he is to stay then it needs to be because he is ready and able to contribute on a weekly basis to the level required. It might be that we need to make the difficult decision to get him a loan move before he can contribute for us again. Quite a big part of the reason we got relegated last time was because we held on to too many players for the wrong reasons, we need to learn to be brutal with these decisions. We’re not a charity, the only goal is to be as successful as possible.

Fair enough, I guess, but it's worth bearing this in mind next time a young player decides to let their contract run down and leave on a free. Ruthlessness works both ways.

 

[KingKieffer]

Fair enough, I guess, but it's worth bearing this in mind next time a young player decides to let their contract run down and leave on a free. Ruthlessness works both ways.

Absolutely.

My issue with Zemura wasn’t running his contract down by the way, he’s more than entitled to do that. My issue was with the way he handled things, not even responding to the club, the club finding out that he’d signed elsewhere via social media, not having the respect to wait until the Summer to negotiate his move etc. Given that we were the ones who rescued his career, I feel like he behaved poorly in the circumstances. Never even had an issue with Fraser running his contract down, it’s the way these guys behaved that doesn’t sit right.

Look at Lerma, owes us nothing and will move on with the best wishes of everyone if he decides to depart.

Players are ruthless when it comes to their careers, we should be equally as ruthless. There is no loyalty in this game, it about winning.

 

[paul49]

Brooks was never a quick player. He was and I assume still is a clever and tricky player.At his best he is an upgrade on Pugh.

To get regular game time for me we should concentrate on making him one of the attacking central midfield players as we have to have pace in the front three.

We learnt yesterday (although we’ve learned it before just GON keeps forgetting) that when you play a forward line with no pace in this league you don’t get out your half. Our one chance in the first half of getting out our half was the long ball to Solanke (Dango being tied up as Mepham didn’t attack). Once we dropped8 Solanke deep and put Moore up front and Brooks arriving we didn’t get out of our half at alll really.

Yesterday we played Vina and Outtara as wing backs with Kelly, Zabbania and Mepham as a back three. Solanke was isolated and as a result Palace played most of the time with two central defenders enabling them to reinforce their midfield and press our central three.

It was a recipe for a rancid performance which is what we got. Factor in Lerma playing with a broken nose.

No shots on target and our only decent free kick taken by Cook flying into row ZZ!

 

[Neil Dawson]

Yesterday we played Vina and Outtara as wing backs with Kelly, Zabbania and Mepham as a back three. Solanke was isolated and as a result Palace played most of the time with two central defenders enabling them to reinforce their midfield and press our central three.

It was a recipe for a rancid performance which is what we got. Factor in Lerma playing with a broken nose.

No shots on target and our only decent free kick taken by Cook flying into row ZZ!

We didn’t play a back three we played a back four. It looked like a three because Mepham was told not to attack at all which meant Outtara got dragged deeper and Vina did attack like a conventional full back. It doesn’t matter though it was never going to work.

 

[CherryBare]

Cook yes, definitely.

Mepham and Senesi are good players but we obviously need someone more dominant in the air too.

Brooks might need regular football to get back to his level, can we offer that here?

I think some fans are struggling with the idea that we might need to be cut throat this summer to give ourselves the best possible chance next season. Lewis Cook has never really looked like he can perform to the level required in the PL on a consistent basis, even more so after the injuries. He needs to be moved on really. Brooks might not be the player that he was, we can’t keep him here just based on what he’s been through. If he is to stay then it needs to be because he is ready and able to contribute on a weekly basis to the level required. It might be that we need to make the difficult decision to get him a loan move before he can contribute for us again. Quite a big part of the reason we got relegated last time was because we held on to too many players for the wrong reasons, we need to learn to be brutal with these decisions. We’re not a charity, the only goal is to be as successful as possible.

You also need to slowly replace and upgrade the squad, not wholesale changes.
Writing off certain players has proved premature, I'm not saying Smith and cook will be regular starters next season, but experienced squad players.
With cook he needs a run of games after injury, odd 10 mins here and there isn't going to get him up to the right levels, same with brooks. We've seen that previously with cook after injuries. Trying to secure safety wasn't going to be the time.
I have to concede junior probably won't get another contract, and Stacey needs to move on.
CB is a tough one, how many do we need, we have 4 plus stephens, I would agree if we sign another, should be an upgrade on stephens, maybe saints 5th choice.
Vena had a bit of a shocker yesterday, so not sure if he's the left back answer.
Looks like we'll need a Jeff replacement too.

 

[blandford_cherry]

Cook yes, definitely.

Mepham and Senesi are good players but we obviously need someone more dominant in the air too.

Brooks might need regular football to get back to his level, can we offer that here?

I think some fans are struggling with the idea that we might need to be cut throat this summer to give ourselves the best possible chance next season. Lewis Cook has never really looked like he can perform to the level required in the PL on a consistent basis, even more so after the injuries. He needs to be moved on really. Brooks might not be the player that he was, we can’t keep him here just based on what he’s been through. If he is to stay then it needs to be because he is ready and able to contribute on a weekly basis to the level required. It might be that we need to make the difficult decision to get him a loan move before he can contribute for us again. Quite a big part of the reason we got relegated last time was because we held on to too many players for the wrong reasons, we need to learn to be brutal with these decisions. We’re not a charity, the only goal is to be as successful as possible.

I don’t think cut throat is the right approach, we have had enough quality to comfortably stay up this season. Getting rid of players such as Stacey, Moore, Stanislas, Pearson, Lowe, Dembele, Fredericks (if contract allows), etc is more than enough to bring in better quality players without completely tearing up the match day squad and saying the likes of Mepham, Senesi, Brooks and Cook should be out the door.

Slow and steady upgrades are much much more sensible. You wrote the squad off several times this season, it’s bitten you in the **************** so don’t start predicting next seasons fate already saying ‘to give us the best possible chance’

 

[paul49]

We didn’t play a back three we played a back four. It looked like a three because Mepham was told not to attack at all which meant Outtara got dragged deeper and Vina did attack like a conventional full back. It doesn’t matter though it was never going to work.
View attachment 10735

Were you at the game? I never saw it as a flat back four from my seat and I wasn't sat in a restricted view one!

Vina was playing wing back certainly for all the first half which in my book makes it a back three.

 

[AFCB_Liam]

Were you at the game? I never saw it as a flat back four from my seat and I wasn't sat in a restricted view one!

Vina was playing wing back certainly for all the first half which in my book makes it a back three.

Watch the highlights back. For all Palace's first half chances down their left, Mepham is 1 on 1 vs Zaha and there's absolutely no sign of a right wing back.

The chance where he cuts inside and fires it wide you can't see anyone else on our right side in the entire camera shot. I was there and Mepham looked definitely a right back. If we were trying to play wing backs then it was a disaster on the right as Dango offered nothing defensively.

 

[northstandmark]

We know O'Neil likes these hybrid defensive shapes, but fwiw I thought it was primarily a back 3 with Dango asked to play wing back.

Maybe that wasn't what was intended, but that's what it looked like.

Whatever it was, it didn't work! Dango needs more freedom than that, and Mepham needs more cover than he got.

 

[Matt Stevenson]

We know O'Neil likes these hybrid defensive shapes, but fwiw I thought it was primarily a back 3 with Dango asked to play wing back.

Maybe that wasn't what was intended, but that's what it looked like.

Whatever it was, it didn't work! Dango needs more freedom than that, and Mepham needs more cover than he got.

I've copied into this thread the average positions in the game. I was only listening on the radio and it could be that Dango (and others) were regularly switching positions and giving a false impression of being in the centre, but this did seem a strange picture. It does seem to show that Billing was wide-ish on the right. This is across the entire 90 minutes, so before Smith came on Mepham would likely have been further on the right.

I concluded I wasn't smart enough to work out what was meant to be happening!

 

[Neil Dawson]

Were you at the game? I never saw it as a flat back four from my seat and I wasn't sat in a restricted view one!

Vina was playing wing back certainly for all the first half which in my book makes it a back three.

I was there yes and not behind a pillar before you ask!! Look, everyone sees it differently but to me and all the papers and media that produced a graphic it was a back four but just one where the left back attacked more than the right back. Dango certainly wasn’t a wingback as you can see from Matt’s average positions graphic.

Similar to how when you watch Newcastle it’s a back four but Trippier attacks constantly and is high up the pitch when they have the ball but Dan Burn doesn’t attack anywhere near as much and is lower.

 

[DJ]

We know O'Neil likes these hybrid defensive shapes

I didn't watch the game so cannot comment at all, other than pre-kick off this is exactly what I said when seeing the teamsheet.

We've played a hybrid back four out of possession, back three in possession a lot under O'Neil, usually down the left with Kelly being in that role of left-back/ left sided centre-back.

This looked like it would be that, but with the right back becoming the centre-back to give Vina the licence to get forward.

With any hybrid system, you get a mix match, trying to get the best of both worlds but often getting the worst of both...

 

[SlowDownDerek]

I was there yes and not behind a pillar before you ask!! Look, everyone sees it differently but to me and all the papers and media that produced a graphic it was a back four but just one where the left back attacked more than the right back. Dango certainly wasn’t a wingback as you can see from Matt’s average positions graphic.

Similar to how when you watch Newcastle it’s a back four but Trippier attacks constantly and is high up the pitch when they have the ball but Dan Burn doesn’t attack anywhere near as much and is lower.

We've had this debate all season it's just normally Kelly on the left who's the full back who tucks in. I didn't see the game but it doesn't surprise me it didn't work with Mepham.

I wonder if it was one of those 'send a message' type selections highlighting to the club that we need a versatile right back as a priority.

 

[AFCB_Liam]

I've copied into this thread the average positions in the game. I was only listening on the radio and it could be that Dango (and others) were regularly switching positions and giving a false impression of being in the centre, but this did seem a strange picture. It does seem to show that Billing was wide-ish on the right. This is across the entire 90 minutes, so before Smith came on Mepham would likely have been further on the right.

I concluded I wasn't smart enough to work out what was meant to be happening!

View attachment 10738

Kind of explains why Billing was poor on Saturday. We've seen countless times that he's most effective just behind the striker. He is not, and will never be, a right wing back or right winger. Very bizarre to see Dango's average position so central as well.

It's almost like we tried to do what we could to make life as easy as possible for Zaha. He could've easily had 2 goals along with his assist for the first goal, he was loving it out there.

 

[USCherry]

Christie and Dango were swapping wings

 

[paul49]

Watch the highlights back. For all Palace's first half chances down their left, Mepham is 1 on 1 vs Zaha and there's absolutely no sign of a right wing back.

The chance where he cuts inside and fires it wide you can't see anyone else on our right side in the entire camera shot. I was there and Mepham looked definitely a right back. If we were trying to play wing backs then it was a disaster on the right as Dango offered nothing defensively.

My point is that Vina was playing mostly in the first half in front of us away fans as a left wing back/wide midfielder. In answer to the original post it wasn't a flat back four. Yes Mepham would move over into the right back position when he had to but he would then switch back inside into a three when we had possession and at least on two occasions it was Dango coming back to concede the corner.

 

[nd9cherry]

Ahh...season not finished and already we have this week's "situation". Did I miss the goalkeepers and I'm counting down to the owners "situation"

 

[CherryBare]

Is something that doesn’t get spoken about enough. How can a PL squad have three right backs in it and Adam Smith still be the first choice?

Spoke to a couple of Brighton fans on the way out of the ground after the game today, they were actually pretty complimentary about our overall game today, remarking that we were a lot more competitive than a lot of sides that they had faced this season and that we were only let down by poor finishing.

They were however very keen to comment on one player that didn’t impress them, that player of course being Adam Smith. One of them even commented that he felt that he was the worst player he had seen from any opposition side this season, I don’t think he is wrong either. He also pointed out the glaringly obvious fact that no matter how well we play, that we are always going to be vulnerable due to having a player that bad in our back four.

I actually feel sorry for Smith at this point, it looks as though he doesn’t want to be out there, and why would he? The poor guy knows that he barely has the legs for the championship anymore, and we are asking him to compete against some of the best wingers in the world. It’s written all over his face every time he loses his man and it results in a goal, it’s just a look of pure resignation.

At this point in his career Adam Smith should be sitting on a bench of a mid table championship team, it’s pure incompetence of the highest order that the club have allowed this situation to develop. It’s also a great shame for a club stalwart that it has come to this point, a classic case of hanging onto a club legend for too long.

In the summer we decided to award Smith a totally unnecessary new contract, while simultaneously signing a permanently injured right back to compete with him. It’s total incompetence. If ever there was a situation that proves that Blake and Hughes need to go then it’s this one, fair play to them for spending tens of millions of pounds in January on players that look out of their depth at this level, but enough is enough. These two are the common denominators for years of mismanagement and if we ever want to have a hope of emulating the likes of Brighton and Brentford then they need to be shown the door as soon as humanly possible. The fact that Blake earns the salary he does is a total joke. We need a new start with competent people running the footballing operations. And no, before you say, getting promoted from the championship while losing £55m isn’t competent, it really really f****g isn’t. Blake out. Hughes out. Rant over.

Blimey waz has changed his tune again. Smith out, hughes out, blake out

 

[Neil Dawson]

And no, before you say, getting promoted from the championship while losing £55m isn’t competent, it really really f****g isn’t. Blake out. Hughes out. Rant over.

Fascinating. You couldn’t make this up! The bloke that started the Hughes appreciation thread to goad others ladies and gentleman…