The silence

Coobster said:
There is quite a state of shock over here, people felt like we were too far away for anything like this to happen. It feels like the fact it was a white supremacist attacking Muslims and not the other way around is irrelevant, it is something that shouldn't happen and that we're all New Zealanders here - regardless of whether you're an immigrant or not.
I was lucky enough to be working from home yesterday, 20kms North of Chch and so wasn't near what went on. Went into the city today and it felt pretty normal - which is a good thing I think, it didn't feel like people had been scared into staying at home.
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As SSD said, 99.9% of the population know it's just the 0.01% nut jobs that think like this. Glad to hear everything is normal quickly.

Unfortunately extremism has grown on both sides over the years and there are still the majority of people who don't acknowledge the chaos caused by Western governments interference in the Middle East. How do you sort it? I have no idea.
 
Kudos said:
It wasn't hard, you started a thread about a recent mass murder with a snide comment about how nobody else had started a thread yet.

Most on this thread inferred you intended to draw a comparison between different mass murders and comment on how you felt not enough grief was being expressed on this particular one.
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Interesting that I’m the target of your condemnation.
 
If you wanted to start a debate Stan one snide comment plus nothing else is hardly a meaningful contribution.
 
Genuinely thought this was referring to our home atmosphere initially. Perhaps Stan could contribute a bit more?

New Zealand may feel a long way away but it only takes one sick **************************** to cause carnage anywhere. Especially in a country where guns are prevalent.

As with the US, there is a gun law debate to be had there. I'm not well placed to comment on that not knowing anything about New Zealand politics/culture etc. But I do read that tightening of gun law is likely to now happen. The horse has already bolted with this incident though of course.

Edit to echo what SDD says above about extreme political and extreme religious views being different sides of the same coin. And they sadly feed off one another.
 
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I heard something on the radio just now....somewhere in NZ Muslims and Christians going into a Church together to pray after the massacre.....the mosques had been closed. Perhaps its the same God they are praying to....and there has only ever been one!
I have genuine tears on my cheeks...thinking of that concept..... As I type!
 
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stanthevan said:
Interesting that I’m the target of your condemnation.
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I wanted to believe that you were well meaning but misguided but I can see you are just using the emotive nature of terrorism as an opportunity to troll so I'm not going to bother with you.:downer:

BillMcgarrycherry said:
I heard something on the radio just now....somewhere in NZ Muslims and Christians going into a Church together to pray after the massacre.....the mosques had been closed. Perhaps its the same God they are praying to....and there has only ever been one!
I have genuine tears on my cheeks...thinking of that concept..... As I type!
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It is the same God. Jews, Christians and Muslims are all Abrahamic faiths. My laymans version of the difference is that the Jews stick to the early books, Christians have promoted Jesus to son of God rather than a prophet and Muslims getthe majority of their beliefs from Mohammed as the last (and therefore in their eyes most accurate) prophet.

I find it nuts that the same core of a religion has effectively converted the world.
 
Kudos said:
I wanted to believe that you were well meaning but misguided but I can see you are just using the emotive nature of terrorism as an opportunity to troll so I'm not going to bother with you.:downer:



It is the same God. Jews, Christians and Muslims are all Abrahamic faiths. My laymans version of the difference is that the Jews stick to the early books, Christians have promoted Jesus to son of God rather than a prophet and Muslims getthe majority of their beliefs from Mohammed as the last (and therefore in their eyes most accurate) prophet.

I find it nuts that the same core of a religion has effectively converted the world.
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The only difference is the Jews believe their god is only for their people and nation,where as christians and Muslims believe the same god is for all mankind,I believe
 
I Hardly think under ANY circumstances that any Muslim thinks our God is the same one as theirs unfortunately...thats not a slur on them though...its just how it is. Otherwise why do they consider us 'Infidels' and other such terms as ' heretic' ?
If im wrong about that then ive been reading it wrong for many years!
In my Town we have a very minimal Muslim community but try as we might ..they will not mix with us in any way! The Chinese, Indians and others do so very easily!
 
We might all have unwavering faith in the same God (or football club) and yet have massive disagreements about who was our greatest prophet (winger)
 
BillMcgarrycherry said:
I Hardly think under ANY circumstances that any Muslim thinks our God is the same one as theirs unfortunately...thats not a slur on them though...its just how it is. Otherwise why do they consider us 'Infidels' and other such terms as ' heretic' ?
If im wrong about that then ive been reading it wrong for many years!
In my Town we have a very minimal Muslim community but try as we might ..they will not mix with us in any way! The Chinese, Indians and others do so very easily!
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I'll have a crack at this but take it with a pinch of salt.

I think the infidel thing is that Muslim's believe that the old holy books had got it a bit twisted over time time and God sent Mohammed as the last prophet to sort out the confusion. Mohammed introduced the top layer of instructions that basically rewrote some of the rules. Infidel I think translates to unbeliever so non-muslims are called Infidels.

The "same God" stuff is a bit of a rabbit hole but it is the same entity that Christians/Jews/Muslim worship, the same Adam and Eve, the same flood. They disagree on the nature of God and what God wants of them.

It's kind of like you and I know Max Demin through mates, this forum and stuff but neither of us have met him. It's the same guy but we'll have different ideas about what he's like and what his vision for the club is. If I think he's an egomaniac who likes to the own club to show off and you think he's a guy who's fallen in love with the area and the club are we talking about the same person?

A lot of muslim's lead quite disciplined lives and I think the combination on family focus and what I'm going to call a restrictive lifestyle makes it more difficult to socialise. Culturally not typically big on sport (Pakistani's aside), don't drink, can't really eat out.

The only muslims I have as friends are from school or work.
 
Kudos said:
I'll have a crack at this but take it with a pinch of salt.

I think the infidel thing is that Muslim's believe that the old holy books had got it a bit twisted over time time and God sent Mohammed as the last prophet to sort out the confusion. Mohammed introduced the top layer of instructions that basically rewrote some of the rules. Infidel I think translates to unbeliever so non-muslims are called Infidels.

The "same God" stuff is a bit of a rabbit hole but it is the same entity that Christians/Jews/Muslim worship, the same Adam and Eve, the same flood. They disagree on the nature of God and what God wants of them.

It's kind of like you and I know Max Demin through mates, this forum and stuff but neither of us have met him. It's the same guy but we'll have different ideas about what he's like and what his vision for the club is. If I think he's an egomaniac who likes to the own club to show off and you think he's a guy who's fallen in love with the area and the club are we talking about the same person?

A lot of muslim's lead quite disciplined lives and I think the combination on family focus and what I'm going to call a restrictive lifestyle makes it more difficult to socialise. Culturally not typically big on sport (Pakistani's aside), don't drink, can't really eat out.

The only muslims I have as friends are from school or work.
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Yeah ..I would say that is a quite a decent crack at it Kudos...such a very complex subject when we try to tackle it....a lot of angles..and we all understand so much..yet so little...Translations of very old texts are open to argument and of course being relevant or not to the modern world. I do believe though there is some evidence in some parts of Muslims trying to compromise with tolerance of differences ; and we have to improve as much as them generally if we are to live in close proximity ! Extremists exist in all cultures and religions...and unfortunately so do weapons. Good Leaders and Decisions about Guns and Knives are essential now!
 
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There's so many different branches of Christianity and Islam as well causing them to hate themselves within, all far too complex for me.
 
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See the other cheek on that same @rse of religious butchery, that we woke up to today. At least 207 dead they now say across Sri Lanka. An island that from what I've seen, and heard from folks who've visited, is so beautiful it could otherwise justifiably be called a paradise.

8 coordinated blasts, with at least one other device failing to go off. Not the work of an in individual, instead some significant sadistic planning involved.

The worry will be any start in reprisal and cyclical violence. I know it's a complicated island.
 
The escalation of violence Worldwide is likely to get worse while Putin and Trump are in their positions as Leaders. India and Pakistan will be a biggy at some point. The whole wolrld is on the edge of something really bad I reckon!
 
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