Non - Brexit

Kenya Cherrie said:
That is exactly not true now is it. Every country has these type of golf courses, they also have the pay and play courses where you just turn up pay your dues and swing away until you don't have any balls left.
Click to expand...
I believe it is true, KC.
The quote "To be able to play golf on a Dutch golf course, a Golf Certificate (GVB) must be shown. The holder of a GVB has proven to have sufficient knowledge of the rules of the game and proven a certain degree of skill." comes right off the Golf In Holland website. Alternatively, you need a Handicap card with index.
My understanding is that there are limited courses due to the lowlands geography, so they keep the "hackers" away until they can prove that they can play. As I said, right priorities.
Edit ... I believe that it is also true that there are some short public courses where anyone can play, so that the novices can hone their game. But I doubt that you would want to go there.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
You're stretching the truth on the backstop. The UK and EU agreed that they did not want a hard border on the island of Ireland and this was the method they agreed. I think both parties made an error of judgement in terms of the significance of what they had agreed to. This is another example of the narrative that the EU's position on everything is just fair and reasonable and the only option available yet this is just not true. They could have tried to find a bespoke solution to fit a historical political problem that has a common travel area which pre-dates the present arrangements.

The EU is completely characterised by instances of opt outs, rules being bent and special exceptions - incidentally a German politician on the radio yesterday pointed this out and said Germany is the beneficiary of more of these exceptions than any other nation. He was desparate for the UK to remain but was extremely critical of the inflexible way the EU has operated in these negotiations and he suggested that they would shoulder a large part of the blame if they fail (clearly UK govt also to shoulder plenty of blame).

Sovereignty is pooled to an extent when countries join organisations such as the EU. We can argue if the UK was free to leave or not but clearly it appears that the ability of the UK to govern itself is compromised given the mess we are in.

Do you think a majority UK citizens would have voted to join this organisation at any point in history if they were fully aware that it would be like this if we ever wanted to leave? Does it feel like we have full control of our governance? Did the public ever vote for us to be in this organisation?

Doesn't feel very sovereign to me mate.
Click to expand...
Yes, no hard border was wanted by both. Initially, the UK Govt said they would use technology on the border. This bespoke idea fell apart as nothing sufficient exists. If it did, it would have been applied at the Swiss and Scandinavian borders by now. People in the UK said the technology will be invented in the future, but to mitigate the risk it is not, the backstop was agreed which is the solution for the historical political problem you describe and the internationally recognised Good Friday agreement. The EU are already doing something they don't want as it is still an uncertainty as its still not fully resolved. This was them agreeing to something bespoke and bending their rules in my opinion. The fact that MP's, including pro leave, in Parliament voted it down is not the EU's fault. Maybe that was the error in judgement you mentioned, but surely that is the Govt's fault for not having an idea of the many fractions that exist within their own party.

Your example of the German politician is interesting. I agree that the Govt's negotiating tactics and rhetoric has not helped at all.

Pooled sovereignty - I think this is where you and I would disagree. Pooling it for 14% of our laws to service and function a sophisticated customs union and single market does not bother me. I look at it in the way that in all aspects of our lives, from birth till death, we have to live by other peoples rules. School, work, your boss, the insurance company, your bank, your mortgage provider, DVLA, ABTA, Easyjet etc etc. I don't have a say in their rules. Yes, I could change providers, but they will still have rules. Whats a few more made by people i don't know or will never meet.

Your three questions - again, I look at things differently and I will never change your mind. I know that. But I personally would vote/say yes to all three.

However, looks like there has been more developments this morning with the extension request. I am beyond confused !
 
If they have refused a short extension as mentioned below, that’s not exactly being helpful and could lead to more calls for a No Deal Brexit which I’m not sure either side want.

Be interesting what happens next.

Independent

A breaking story from Europe - The European Commission opposes Theresa May's plan to delay Brexit until 30 June, according to a leaked internal EU diplomatic note.

The review of the Brexit situation says EU leaders will face a "binary" choice of a short extension to Article 50 to before May 23, or a long delay to at least the end of this year.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...elay-deal-eu-pmqs-corbyn-latest-a8830991.html
 
JIMNNINA said:
the ability of the UK to govern itself is compromised

by the usual scapegoat of the big bad EU.
Who voted for the policies of the erg and dup ?

Moving forward who is going to provide the leadership of Leave which has been absent since the Referendum ?

Leave means Leave, Brexit means Brexit have been shown to be meaningless soundbites.
Click to expand...

Meaningless Soundbites... unless you are obsessed with them!

And Yours ...Meaningful SoundBanquets?

To be fair to you...you are consistent and committed to your beliefs!
Good luck if things go your way...I for one will find a way to adjust to what will probably be ..an outcome not quite tailored well to anyones cloth!
There will be attempts at some kind of leadership from the Right wing but I think the tide will turn left towards the middle eventually and hopefully will stay there.
But..Farage will attempt to figure in something...'hot dates' with Trump and others around the globe, constantly on his 'agenda'! Hot air mainly..thankfully!
Leadership hasnt been great from any quarter though has it?
 
dutchcherry said:
Yes, no hard border was wanted by both. Initially, the UK Govt said they would use technology on the border. This bespoke idea fell apart as nothing sufficient exists. If it did, it would have been applied at the Swiss and Scandinavian borders by now. People in the UK said the technology will be invented in the future, but to mitigate the risk it is not, the backstop was agreed which is the solution for the historical political problem you describe and the internationally recognised Good Friday agreement. The EU are already doing something they don't want as it is still an uncertainty as its still not fully resolved. This was them agreeing to something bespoke and bending their rules in my opinion. The fact that MP's, including pro leave, in Parliament voted it down is not the EU's fault. Maybe that was the error in judgement you mentioned, but surely that is the Govt's fault for not having an idea of the many fractions that exist within their own party.

Your example of the German politician is interesting. I agree that the Govt's negotiating tactics and rhetoric has not helped at all.

Pooled sovereignty - I think this is where you and I would disagree. Pooling it for 14% of our laws to service and function a sophisticated customs union and single market does not bother me. I look at it in the way that in all aspects of our lives, from birth till death, we have to live by other peoples rules. School, work, your boss, the insurance company, your bank, your mortgage provider, DVLA, ABTA, Easyjet etc etc. I don't have a say in their rules. Yes, I could change providers, but they will still have rules. Whats a few more made by people i don't know or will never meet.

Your three questions - again, I look at things differently and I will never change your mind. I know that. But I personally would vote/say yes to all three.

However, looks like there has been more developments this morning with the extension request. I am beyond confused !
Click to expand...


I don't agree with any of what you've said, especially the weird comparison of government with easyJet terms and conditions. :unsure: It's not really relevant what bothers you or me, we're talking about the sovereignty of governments not how much time your boss gives you for lunch.

But to say yes to all three of my questions is beyond bizzare in my view.

There is no way in god's green earth that a majority in the UK would vote to join the EU if they'd known leaving would be this difficult. Half of people who just voted to remain were voting for the status quo and wouldn't voluntarily join the EU - this is my estimate but I fall firmly in this group.

As for did the public ever vote to join the EU - they didn't as a matter of fact. I honestly don't know how you could answer yes to that question.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I don't agree with any of what you've said, especially the weird comparison of government with easyJet terms and conditions. :unsure: It's not really relevant what bothers you or me, we're talking about the sovereignty of governments not how much time your boss gives you for lunch.

But to say yes to all three of my questions is beyond bizzare in my view.

There is no way in god's green earth that a majority in the UK would vote to join the EU if they'd known leaving would be this difficult. Half of people who just voted to remain were voting for the status quo and wouldn't voluntarily join the EU - this is my estimate but I fall firmly in this group.

As for did the public ever vote to join the EU - they didn't as a matter of fact. I honestly don't know how you could answer yes to that question.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
 
Bring on the Veto....lets change the music....anything but 3 more months of this crap! Or a good old Revocation of the jolly old article 50!
Something different please!
 
northstandmark said:
Perhaps @AlGard can tell us how reliawhat he says ble this French publication is.
It suggests that for his part, Macron has already decided that he'll veto our request for an extension to A50. Let alone anyone else in EU27.
https://www.lepoint.fr/politique/em...la-date-du-brexit-20-03-2019-2302680_1897.php

Only takes one veto and we're out with no deal remember. Unless either A50 is revoked, or Mr Speaker allows May's deal to have another vote.
Click to expand...

What is reported today will be very different tomorrow.
And the website is a bit FDM...French Daily Mail
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Why don't you try clarifying your thoughts for once?
Click to expand...

Lots of experts analysing what has been, lots of blame for everyone but the Leavers, lots of silence when Leavers are asked who is capable of leading the country to a successful exit.

Time to stop looking backwards. Time for a change of PM.
 
Its most likely that the EU is trying to force us to withdraw A50! ..at the last gasp on the 29th!
Ive had a complete re-read of Gina Millers scripts and in the absence of anything of either any substance or better than a 7 year old could essay ..from the Leave big guns...then I have to get back across the fence!
Very disappointing but......sometimes you have to separate the sugar and the s##t and although I still find the likes of Soubrys tantrums difficult to pouch.....I just cannot align myself with Mogg and Johnson and co any more....a bottom 3 performance from them!
 
May statement tonight. Could it be general election, resignation, or just an update? Worth a watch at 8.15

Surely if she lost a vote next week she’s got to go?

Literallt in 9 days time we could crash out with no deal.
 
Sorry just back in....can someone confirm that the EU will only grant an extension on a vote that Bercow has put the kibosh on ?
 
It has always been May’s strategy to take her deal to the wire to present the alternative of her sh1t deal or no deal. She has got Tusk to act as her spokesperson. Parliament should quite rightly tell her to feck off. The EU doesn’t want no deal any more than we do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

;