Non - Brexit

red_house said:
I'm afraid not stan (yeah I know you aren't stan)...I actually thought he might have been an expat typing away in Rotterdam or something interesting.

I was going to ask him about the Impact of uncontrolled Immigration on public services and housing in the low countries.(just for starters) but that screams xenophobia to some on here I guess.
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My golf partner is from Holland (now Canadian citizen). What a great country - legalized pot, hookers and right to die ... but you need a proficiency certificate to play their courses.
"To be able to play golf on a Dutch golf course, a Golf Certificate (GVB) must be shown. The holder of a GVB has proven to have sufficient knowledge of the rules of the game and proven a certain degree of skill."
Now that's a country that has its priorities straight ......
 
Toronto John said:
My golf partner is from Holland (now Canadian citizen). What a great country - legalized pot, hookers and right to die ... but you need a proficiency certificate to play their courses.
"To be able to play golf on a Dutch golf course, a Golf Certificate (GVB) must be shown. The holder of a GVB has proven to have sufficient knowledge of the rules of the game and proven a certain degree of skill."
Now that's a country that has its priorities straight ......
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That is exactly not true now is it. Every country has these type of golf courses, they also have the pay and play courses where you just turn up pay your dues and swing away until you don't have any balls left.
 
red_house said:
I was wondering about the user name that's all. I was thinking how sad it was that someone from Europe would share your views.On my travels most Europeans I've met have been totally understanding of the situation .
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Dutch surname thats all. Born Ireland, via Scotland grew up in England since early 90’s.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
If the UK Parliament is sovereign how come they can't decide to leave the EU if they want? How come they are being asked to sign up to a backstop that will allegedly restrict their rights to govern their own customs in perpetuity? Will the UK Parliament be bound by the backstop?
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They can leave if they want. Notify Art 50 then walk away, legally nothing to stop them after 2 years. No withdrawal agreement etc. It’s the nuclear option but perfectly legal.

The backstop was originally a request by the U.K. govt to get round the border problem. The fact our own govt/erg group went back on it is another matter. Eu on the backstop are asking us to agree to what we asked them to agree too.
 
I really think May Bot* should resign very, very soon. She does not listen to anybody. I understood that the government last night, that the government was thinking about another vote on her deal on Brexit-eve (that's if they can get Bercow to agree).
How's that for pressure and brinkmanship!
(* Worst PM in living memory - and I go back to Harold Wilson.)

Apparently, once we've an agreement with the EU to leave, the second phase of negotiations is the difficult part. Imagine that with this shower!

Whilst I wanted to stay, I think there's just too much bad blood to stay now, but let's not have a no-deal exit.
 
Has the pm displayed personal responsibility and accountability by resigning?
Where coes the buck stop for 3 years of failed leadership, lack of planninng and preparation?

Who is capable of leading the Leave factions ?
 
dutchcherry said:
They can leave if they want. Notify Art 50 then walk away, legally nothing to stop them after 2 years. No withdrawal agreement etc. It’s the nuclear option but perfectly legal.

The backstop was originally a request by the U.K. govt to get round the border problem. The fact our own govt/erg group went back on it is another matter. Eu on the backstop are asking us to agree to what we asked them to agree too.
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You're stretching the truth on the backstop. The UK and EU agreed that they did not want a hard border on the island of Ireland and this was the method they agreed. I think both parties made an error of judgement in terms of the significance of what they had agreed to. This is another example of the narrative that the EU's position on everything is just fair and reasonable and the only option available yet this is just not true. They could have tried to find a bespoke solution to fit a historical political problem that has a common travel area which pre-dates the present arrangements.

The EU is completely characterised by instances of opt outs, rules being bent and special exceptions - incidentally a German politician on the radio yesterday pointed this out and said Germany is the beneficiary of more of these exceptions than any other nation. He was desparate for the UK to remain but was extremely critical of the inflexible way the EU has operated in these negotiations and he suggested that they would shoulder a large part of the blame if they fail (clearly UK govt also to shoulder plenty of blame).

Sovereignty is pooled to an extent when countries join organisations such as the EU. We can argue if the UK was free to leave or not but clearly it appears that the ability of the UK to govern itself is compromised given the mess we are in.

Do you think a majority UK citizens would have voted to join this organisation at any point in history if they were fully aware that it would be like this if we ever wanted to leave? Does it feel like we have full control of our governance? Did the public ever vote for us to be in this organisation?

Doesn't feel very sovereign to me mate.
 
the ability of the UK to govern itself is compromised

by the usual scapegoat of the big bad EU.
Who voted for the policies of the erg and dup ?

Moving forward who is going to provide the leadership of Leave which has been absent since the Referendum ?

Leave means Leave, Brexit means Brexit have been shown to be meaningless soundbites.
 
JIMNNINA said:
the ability of the UK to govern itself is compromised

by the usual scapegoat of the big bad EU.
Who voted for the policies of the erg and dup ?

Moving forward who is going to provide the leadership of Leave which has been absent since the Referendum ?

Leave means Leave, Brexit means Brexit have been shown to be meaningless soundbites.
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You can look up which constituencies voted for DUP and ERG members Jim - drumroll - half the people on here probably voted for them.
 
JIMNNINA said:
the ability of the UK to govern itself is compromised

by the usual scapegoat of the big bad EU.
Who voted for the policies of the erg and dup ?

Moving forward who is going to provide the leadership of Leave which has been absent since the Referendum ?

Leave means Leave, Brexit means Brexit have been shown to be meaningless soundbites.
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For the DUP: the constituents of DUP constituencies in N.Ireland, presumably.
 
Any thoughts on who is capable to lead the country on the next and definitely, probably, maybe the final step of the long road to Leave ?
 
Interesting day just gone.....I asked a young bloke( guy) in the cafe.. " whats does Meme mean? " He went into some great detail and examples from his phone for about ten minutes.....I said thanks and went on my way.....then it occurred to me that i'd merely just learned another word for 'Idea'. or a short for 'sharing an idea' ...but it sounds like a mysterious part of a womans body like a G spot or something!
 
If we crash out with "No Deal", will the Brexiteers be supporting the very MP's they have called "treasonous" for 2 years, as they beg for WTO deals?
Because if they are, that is more double standards.
 
BillMcgarrycherry said:
Interesting day just gone.....I asked a young bloke( guy) in the cafe.. " whats does Meme mean? " He went into some great detail and examples from his phone for about ten minutes.....I said thanks and went on my way.....then it occurred to me that i'd merely just learned another word for 'Idea'. or a short for 'sharing an idea' ...but it sounds like a mysterious part of a womans body like a G spot or something!
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Its not mysterious Bill, you can find it.
The G spot is actually called the "Gräfenberg spot" sounds all a bit German to me.
 
Tbf to them ...the MPs cannot please everyone in their constituencies! The vote in 2016 wasnt about whether you can shoot next doors noisy cockerel...we have to wake up to this ; it was a straight choice Vote ...In or Out...about the Nations link to Europe!
While im at it....someone said recently in a Tv street interview..the French all think they are Philosophers......im thinking ' What else could they have been ?....with Britain sat on their shoulders!
 
AlGard said:
If we crash out with "No Deal", will the Brexiteers be supporting the very MP's they have called "treasonous" for 2 years, as they beg for WTO deals?
Because if they are, that is more double standards.
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If we do "crash out with no deal" (and I'm pretty sure some fudge will occur on/by deadline day to prevent it) then that will be a failure on the part of all the parties involved in getting a smoother withdrawal organised and agreed for the last 2 years. As already mentioned by others in this thread, it'll be our Government, the wider MPs in the HoC, and the EU themselves.

And if it does happen, then all we can do is start talking again, and I'll support anyone trying to get something workable agreed and sorted.

My understanding having put a small amount of reading into the topic, is that in a hypothetical WTO exit, we won't in all practicality be able to go off and do our own thing in terms of regulations etc and cause many years of WTO tariffs and headaches. To quickly move on from WTO terms to agreements with the EU and other major parties around the world, we will have to retain some regulatory harmonisation and alignment anyway, and in doing so trade agreements shouldn't be nearly as complex as they are when (for example) the EU and China start talking, with utterly different regulations and standards to their goods.

The worst and prolonged pain would come if we did try to go and do something more radically different with regards to our regulations and standards of goods. Which is what I believe some in the ERG wish to happen. I think those folks are in cloud cuckoo land.
 
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