Non - General Election

cockbeard said:
Because why require anything from a referendum that was purely advisory. The referendum was a glorified opinion poll, nothing more. Placing any extra stipulations on it before it took place would only have added more weight to it and it's outcome. Although with hindsight enough weight has been added to it already

If we were going to learn anything from the referendum it should be that democracy is broken, professional politicians are parasites, and we need a complete rethink about how governance should happen in this country. Sortition for me
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Benevolent Dictatorship for me
 
Its a friggin Goths Paradise ( with due deference and respect to any Goths online:!)

Im off up t' poob tomorrow for a pint of Doom....assuming I can 'Prorogue' Er Indoor's shopping aspirations.
I will sit there and contemplate the impending Fear MongerOptions and ..the Winter of Our Discontent.. Woe is on the Horizon...those that Die ...Thems' the lucky ones..
Doom is the God of our Time....
The only thing keeping me Sane is the fact the Cherries cant drop any points this weekend!
 
davygravy said:
Widely reported in the media in July, Stan.....

"NEW Lib Dem boss Jo Swinson admitted on Tuesday that even if Britain voted for Brexit in a second referendum she would still campaign to reverse the decision.

She vowed never to change her “fundamental belief” that Britain is better in the EU."
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I guess it depends which paint you read

Swinson says she does not believe there is a majority of any one deal or form of Brexit. She also says she would honour any result of a second referendum, but it wouldn't change her view.
 
Johnson: Whatever he is or isnt.. the kicking he gets now will only make him stronger..he is that type...if you notice ..he is still laughing and joking.
Not many of the 'kickers' are laughing or have any humour or anything else..Kickers that have No Ball..have No Answers !
 
Wow! A Lib Dem , Wera Hobhouse on tv just now talking sense!
She said...let Johnson go over.( hopefully mob- handed from my point of view)...stay true to his word...try to get a Deal......Then have an Election!
I read that as ..If Johnson has f#cked up.. he might have, he might not.. but If he has drawn blank , we can get Corby or whoever gets IN as PM....send Them to try again...and so on until something is resolved...something....anything to wrap it up for good....then ADAPT to that.
 
BillMcgarrycherry said:
Lib Dems: since I started being interested in politics...around 5 years old in 1955 ...the Liberals have been the most insipid waste of space .. A bland....vapid....bloodless collection of vertebrates.

Pity really.. for those looking for something in the Middle to push aside the hardline, 'black and whiters' of the Wing Parties!

'Missed a Trick'....could be a motto on their Flagpole!
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In my 56 years on this planet the only good MP who represented my constituency was a Liberal Democrat - she, I felt, was at least working for her constituents, rather than towing the party line.
The current Tory promised to do something about the poor state of mental health care for young people in Dorset, after it was highlighted that a teenager requiring residential care was sent to BRADFORD for this.
I emailed him a while back to ask what progress had been made. Three guesses.

Also, plenty on this site moan about what a dreadful MP Christopher Chope (conservative) is. People tell me that Diana Maddocks (Lib Dem) was a good MP

They really aren't all bad, Bill.
 
BillMcgarrycherry said:
Its a friggin Goths Paradise ( with due deference and respect to any Goths online:!)

Im off up t' poob tomorrow for a pint of Doom....assuming I can 'Prorogue' Er Indoor's shopping aspirations.
I will sit there and contemplate the impending Fear MongerOptions and ..the Winter of Our Discontent.. Woe is on the Horizon...those that Die ...Thems' the lucky ones..
Doom is the God of our Time....
The only thing keeping me Sane is the fact the Cherries cant drop any points this weekend!
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Is "Fear mongeroptions" a real ale? - who is it brewed by? :)
 
punkrockcherry said:
In my 56 years on this planet the only good MP who represented my constituency was a Liberal Democrat - she, I felt, was at least working for her constituents, rather than towing the party line.
The current Tory promised to do something about the poor state of mental health care for young people in Dorset, after it was highlighted that a teenager requiring residential care was sent to BRADFORD for this.
I emailed him a while back to ask what progress had been made. Three guesses.

Also, plenty on this site moan about what a dreadful MP Christopher Chope (conservative) is. People tell me that Diana Maddocks (Lib Dem) was a good MP

They really aren't all bad, Bill.
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The fact that Chope still has plenty of support on here and in Christchurch shows you that the Tories can do whatever they like and people will just accept it.
 
wallmth said:
There are non so blind that they will not see .

Just the fact that you place the Sun ( does anybody read it for news ) top of your little list of newspapers Dutchie doesn’t like. Yet the daily mirror it’s direct competition doesn’t even get a mention says all there needs about your “ worse offenders imo” list ....scum :rofl:how adorable .
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I knew I forgot one. Yep, add the Mirror to the list. There was no particular order to the list, but if i had to pick the worst, The Telegraph and the Daily Mail would top the list.
 
AFCB Lost in Brum said:
Oh come on, that's still terrible cherry-picking.

Pre-Brexit I read the Independent and Guardian - and often got teased for being a sandal-wearing leftie on here.

Since the Brexit vote those two papers have become as twisted and unrelentingly hypocritical as the other papers... so I just gave up.
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Apart from the Mirror which i left off by mistake i think i have said all the main newspapers have failed and been bad.
 
punkrockcherry said:
In my 56 years on this planet the only good MP who represented my constituency was a Liberal Democrat - she, I felt, was at least working for her constituents, rather than towing the party line.
The current Tory promised to do something about the poor state of mental health care for young people in Dorset, after it was highlighted that a teenager requiring residential care was sent to BRADFORD for this.
I emailed him a while back to ask what progress had been made. Three guesses.

Also, plenty on this site moan about what a dreadful MP Christopher Chope (conservative) is. People tell me that Diana Maddocks (Lib Dem) was a good MP

They really aren't all bad, Bill.
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Yeah...ive exagerrated slightly ..ive read some of Maddocks views in the past, among other Poole and Bournemouth candidates.....she was ok...good yes....as were some Lib Dems MPs down here, although I find the party generally weak. Its a pity because to overcome strong and selfish Tories. . its essential to have a sharper Edge ..which I remember Di Maddocks possessed.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
You say lies but it would have been possible if the UK negotiating position had been stronger, which it would have been if the result was more clear cut. The fact that it was so close and that there are a large number of key players in the UK deliberately trying to undermine the result is what makes it more difficult than was promised. That doesn't make the pre referendum predictions lies, naive maybe.

Even so we had a deal on the table that would have ticked most boxes so, again, lies is stretching the truth to destruction.

If you can't see that the Irish and EU have used the GFA as leverage I guess you'll always view them as the good guys and the UK as the baddies. It's nonsense though. If the GFA is sacrosanct how come it is acceptable to insist on a regulatory border between NI and the RoUK? It's the other side of the same coin. The GFA was a fudge and a similar solution could be found here. UK politicians have certainly not covered themselves in glory but the Irish and EU are playing exactly the same game.

You say the EU can't compromise, why not? The UK has paid in billions for 40 years and are a massive part of the trading block, does that not afford any goodwill? EU citizens certainly don't want the UK to be made an example of they just want it sorting same as the rest of us. Remind me why we're the bad guys again?
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Ok, naive rather than liars. However, for people to push for something, and to gain votes from the public, on something so important and complex, if they were naive in their thinking and understanding, I still think that is unforgivable. You expect a certain level of knowledge and intelligence from elected politicians, and for some of them to have failed so badly leaves a bad taste. I agree it would help if the margin of victory was more clear cut, but poll after poll and vote after vote in Parliament shows low 50 and high 40% results. The nation was divided before the ref, and 3 yrs later is still divided around the same margin. If remain had won by a sizeable margin, I don't think many pro leave would have said 'ok all done, lets get behind the Govt and get a better deal from Europe going forward'. Until its 70/30 or even 80/20 then its all to play for, for both sides. Not saying I want that, but there will always be this problem. Whoever invented the idea of a referendum on this (not saying anyone in particular), if they foresaw paralysing this country for years as the end result, I think they have succeeded.

Was that May's deal that ticked the all the boxes? If so, as a withdrawal deal to plug the gap while we negotiate the future trading deal, yep agreed take it. However, some of the most prominent leave politicians were some of the most vocal in their criticism of it. Why? Because it did not square with what they 'naively' promised before and just after the referendum.

The GFA - again not saying good people v bad people. I think your 'naive' label fits the bill. If Dublin has used it as leverage, then I applaud them. We voted to be in this position where these things could be used against us. We were told we had all the leverage in these negotiations (German Cars etc) but as yet I have not seen it. Now that our so called 'leverage' has disappeared, UK politicians are left trying to plead for 'good faith'. Negotiations are tough, and on this scale, even tougher. The aim is for everyone to walk away at the end after shaking hands, but its going to get frosty during it.

As for compromise, I think we will have to agree to disagree. From what i read, we proposed a) rejected, they proposed b) rejected, then a compromise was made. They conceded to UK wide access to the CU, but we conceded to no time limit on the backstop. Eu also offered a bespoke deep CU type relationship which has some aspects of the SM regulations covering only Norther Ireland. This was bespoke and i think one of a kind. This was rejected 3 times by parliament, and again the loudest leave political voices were very anti the deal. Could be that they wanted to cover up their naivety, or maybe they wanted no deal all along. As for the billions, again you and i wont agree. I see that we paid a fee to have access to the CU and SM. We got some of that money back in order to be spent across the country without domestic political allegiances, and businesses as part of one of the larger EU members took full advantage of access to the bigger and wider trading market.
 
If, in a forthcoming Election, the Christchurch public return Chope to Westminster then that would provide good ammunition for anyone campaigning to get the voting age chopped down to 65....
because it would reflect the fact that misplaced loyalty to Conservatism , out of date views of society issues and some degree of senility had overwhelmed all semblance of 'common dog f#ck' ( cdf - aka common sense).

The man himself has a screwed up version of what constitutes survival of vertebrates on this planet....the ultimate in Insular brain activity ..without any regard for what or who exists outside his own carcass !
 
dutchcherry said:
Ok, naive rather than liars. However, for people to push for something, and to gain votes from the public, on something so important and complex, if they were naive in their thinking and understanding, I still think that is unforgivable. You expect a certain level of knowledge and intelligence from elected politicians, and for some of them to have failed so badly leaves a bad taste. I agree it would help if the margin of victory was more clear cut, but poll after poll and vote after vote in Parliament shows low 50 and high 40% results. The nation was divided before the ref, and 3 yrs later is still divided around the same margin. If remain had won by a sizeable margin, I don't think many pro leave would have said 'ok all done, lets get behind the Govt and get a better deal from Europe going forward'. Until its 70/30 or even 80/20 then its all to play for, for both sides. Not saying I want that, but there will always be this problem. Whoever invented the idea of a referendum on this (not saying anyone in particular), if they foresaw paralysing this country for years as the end result, I think they have succeeded.

Was that May's deal that ticked the all the boxes? If so, as a withdrawal deal to plug the gap while we negotiate the future trading deal, yep agreed take it. However, some of the most prominent leave politicians were some of the most vocal in their criticism of it. Why? Because it did not square with what they 'naively' promised before and just after the referendum.

The GFA - again not saying good people v bad people. I think your 'naive' label fits the bill. If Dublin has used it as leverage, then I applaud them. We voted to be in this position where these things could be used against us. We were told we had all the leverage in these negotiations (German Cars etc) but as yet I have not seen it. Now that our so called 'leverage' has disappeared, UK politicians are left trying to plead for 'good faith'. Negotiations are tough, and on this scale, even tougher. The aim is for everyone to walk away at the end after shaking hands, but its going to get frosty during it.

As for compromise, I think we will have to agree to disagree. From what i read, we proposed a) rejected, they proposed b) rejected, then a compromise was made. They conceded to UK wide access to the CU, but we conceded to no time limit on the backstop. Eu also offered a bespoke deep CU type relationship which has some aspects of the SM regulations covering only Norther Ireland. This was bespoke and i think one of a kind. This was rejected 3 times by parliament, and again the loudest leave political voices were very anti the deal. Could be that they wanted to cover up their naivety, or maybe they wanted no deal all along. As for the billions, again you and i wont agree. I see that we paid a fee to have access to the CU and SM. We got some of that money back in order to be spent across the country without domestic political allegiances, and businesses as part of one of the larger EU members took full advantage of access to the bigger and wider trading market.
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You're very one sided in your views. Very quick to praise Irish or EU politicians for sticking to their guns yet when UK politicians do that they are 'liars', 'naive' etc. I'm no jingoistic reactionary but your willingness to support their politicians over ours is odd to even me. They are all cut from the same cloth.

I just find it amazing that people are happy to say we should never have had a referendum... so we just blindly accept being part of an organisation that the majority don't want to be a part of. You overestimate the support for the EU among the 48% too. There are plenty of us that reluctant voted to remain as the least bad option. Don't alarm bells ring with you that there's no control over the destination of the EU? Voters can't even vote to leave the bloody thing.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
You're very one sided in your views. Very quick to praise Irish or EU politicians for sticking to their guns yet when UK politicians do that they are 'liars', 'naive' etc. I'm no jingoistic reactionary but your willingness to support their politicians over ours is odd to even me. They are all cut from the same cloth.

I just find it amazing that people are happy to say we should never have had a referendum... so we just blindly accept being part of an organisation that the majority don't want to be a part of. You overestimate the support for the EU among the 48% too. There are plenty of us that reluctant voted to remain as the least bad option. Don't alarm bells ring with you that there's no control over the destination of the EU? Voters can't even vote to leave the bloody thing.
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Uk voters have voted to leave, parliament has invoked article 50.
 
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