Non - Brexit

klaus_afcb said:
Good article.

As I've argued before, I agree with SDD that Brexit appears to be having some positive impact on workers in industries with a typically high proportion of migrant workers. However, it's not the migration that caused wages in these industries to be so low in the first place, but the lack of workers protections that governments could implement at any time, whether in or out of the EU.

For me, the heart of the problem lies in the fact that we pursue an economics which prioritises growth in GDP over social value, the benefits of which overwhelmingly go to the rich (60% of pre-crisis GDP growth went to richest 5% of population). Work of high social, but low economic value, is disregarded in favour of that which contributes more to GDP. An interesting analysis from NEF gave examples of this: Care workers generate £9.50 in social benefit for every £1 in wages earned. Waste recycling workers generate £12. In contrast, tax accountants destroy £45 in social value for every £1 earned, and investment bankers destroy £7.

Until we start to prioritise activities of social value, and therefore offer appropriate protections to both workers and the environment (and recognise unpaid care work), I fear the benefits of Brexit to low-income workers will be short-lived. In time, capital will find alternative means of exploitation to lower input costs (e.g. expected increased funding / policy priorities given to research on driverless lorries in the near future). The article alludes to part of the issue here too: the unchecked movement of capital, which allows production (read exploitation) to move to places of low-regulation / cheap labour and the returns then exported to shareholders back home. An analysis by Global Witness estimates that for every $1 given in aid, $24 flows the other wage through capital flight.

So overall, I think Brexit is a bit of a distraction here. In the long term, the neoliberal economics pursued by both the EU and the UK will lead to similar outcomes: i.e. exploit the poor and the environment, and increase the transfer of wealth to the rich.
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Great Article and summation. Things have to change. but as alluded earlier I just don't think we actually care about each other enough for change to happen.

We are just too right leaning and 'i'm alright jack sadly. I get there's nothing wrong in wanting to provide for yourself and your family but as a nation we need to think further than the end of our garden path sometimes.
 
Is there anything worthwhile coming back for next week?
Does anyone want anything bringing back from France.
I am back in a van, so if you are short, just shout.
 
It's going well isn't it?
Another Boris pledge was 20,000 new Police.
Well, there are 1700 new Police so far, but 3,000 have quit.
 
klaus_afcb said:
Good article.

As I've argued before, I agree with SDD that Brexit appears to be having some positive impact on workers in industries with a typically high proportion of migrant workers. However, it's not the migration that caused wages in these industries to be so low in the first place, but the lack of workers protections that governments could implement at any time, whether in or out of the EU.

For me, the heart of the problem lies in the fact that we pursue an economics which prioritises growth in GDP over social value, the benefits of which overwhelmingly go to the rich (60% of pre-crisis GDP growth went to richest 5% of population). Work of high social, but low economic value, is disregarded in favour of that which contributes more to GDP. An interesting analysis from NEF gave examples of this: Care workers generate £9.50 in social benefit for every £1 in wages earned. Waste recycling workers generate £12. In contrast, tax accountants destroy £45 in social value for every £1 earned, and investment bankers destroy £7.

Until we start to prioritise activities of social value, and therefore offer appropriate protections to both workers and the environment (and recognise unpaid care work), I fear the benefits of Brexit to low-income workers will be short-lived. In time, capital will find alternative means of exploitation to lower input costs (e.g. expected increased funding / policy priorities given to research on driverless lorries in the near future). The article alludes to part of the issue here too: the unchecked movement of capital, which allows production (read exploitation) to move to places of low-regulation / cheap labour and the returns then exported to shareholders back home. An analysis by Global Witness estimates that for every $1 given in aid, $24 flows the other wage through capital flight.

So overall, I think Brexit is a bit of a distraction here. In the long term, the neoliberal economics pursued by both the EU and the UK will lead to similar outcomes: i.e. exploit the poor and the environment, and increase the transfer of wealth to the rich.
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Great post. In reality we are grappling with the transition to post capitalism and I don't think anyone knows how this is going to happen. I can't say I'm optimistic though.
 
I steer clear of this thread. Hacked off at the extra hassle it's created for me, but what can I do?

However, I saw this quoted at the start of a book I just read and, for some reason, felt it should be added here.

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.”

Leo Tolstoy
 
From the "you couldn't make this stuff up file"
Michelle Barnier who is considering running for French Presidency publicly states
‘We must regain our legal sovereignty so that we are no longer subject to the rulings of the European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights.’ and backs a French referendum on banning non EU immigration into France. He also critcises the Franco - German alliance claiming it favours the Germans. What next Frexit !!!!!
Where would Al Gard move to - Germany ?
 
redharry said:
From the "you couldn't make this stuff up file"
Michelle Barnier who is considering running for French Presidency publicly states
‘We must regain our legal sovereignty so that we are no longer subject to the rulings of the European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights.’ and backs a French referendum on banning non EU immigration into France. He also critcises the Franco - German alliance claiming it favours the Germans. What next Frexit !!!!!
Where would Al Gard move to - Germany ?
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Are the Germans laughing at the French, like the French apparently are about us...
 
POLITICO listened back to the audio of Barnier's remarks and he said: "We cannot do all this without having regained our legal sovereignty, being permanently threatened by a ruling or a condemnation at the level of the European Court of Justice or the European Convention on Human Rights, or by an interpretation by our own judicial institutions. And this is the reason why ... we have chosen to say that we will propose during the first round of the legislative elections the terms of a referendum that will be organized in September next year, with two objectives: that of a parliamentary control on the quotas of immigrants each year and finally that of recovering through a constitutional shield our freedom of maneuver and interpretation on the subjects related to immigration."

https://www.politico.eu/article/michel-barnier-brexit-france-candidate-eu-campaign-trail/
 
redharry said:
From the "you couldn't make this stuff up file"
Michelle Barnier who is considering running for French Presidency publicly states
‘We must regain our legal sovereignty so that we are no longer subject to the rulings of the European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights.’ and backs a French referendum on banning non EU immigration into France. He also critcises the Franco - German alliance claiming it favours the Germans. What next Frexit !!!!!
Where would Al Gard move to - Germany ?
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Yes I did laugh at that yesterday!

Barnier must have gone through the Brexit negotiations and thought - you know what, some of this isn't a bad idea after all...

In reality I suspect it's a token populist front to prevent the the pro-EU parties being flanked. Even Macron, the most pro integrationist EU leader anyone could wish for, has been toning down that rhetoric lately as it comes towards election. Interesting though.
 
Generally speaking the whole Shamba of Bwexit (shamba Swahili for meadow iirc) is a Gas.
The Macron cove is seeing from a desperate vanity stance, that the EU is just a buggerance for his Vision a` Version of France's ' Liberte` Egalite`, Fraternalite` motto... under threat from the bullying albeit bumbling 'Union' !
As I say its a Gas ..the whole bloody concept!
Getting ' port side' of common dog f√ck is maybe starting to dawn on some European ' leaders '...
 
Audenshaw Cherry said:
Don't worry the £350m day (on the bus) will sort it ALL out!

Holds breath.
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There are a few on this forum who probably need to try and let this one go. It seems like ancient history now and no one is changing anyone's mind. The Tories gained an electoral advantage by carrying out the result of the referendum when many sought to prevent it from happening. Getting angry every time you see an empty shelf will only damage your own state of mind. We need to address the issues and move on.
 
AlGard said:
Is there anything worthwhile coming back for next week?
Does anyone want anything bringing back from France.
I am back in a van, so if you are short, just shout.
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You mean it's not already full with porn, bangers and flick-knives?!

Sorry, what decade is it again? Oh, I remember.

You mean it's not already full with illegal immigrants?
 
northstand pundit said:
There are a few on this forum who probably need to try and let this one go. It seems like ancient history now and no one is changing anyone's mind. The Tories gained an electoral advantage by carrying out the result of the referendum when many sought to prevent it from happening. Getting angry every time you see an empty shelf will only damage your own state of mind. We need to address the issues and move on.
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Nah, I don’t think so but thank you for your advice.
 
northstand pundit said:
There are a few on this forum who probably need to try and let this one go. It seems like ancient history now and no one is changing anyone's mind. The Tories gained an electoral advantage by carrying out the result of the referendum when many sought to prevent it from happening. Getting angry every time you see an empty shelf will only damage your own state of mind. We need to address the issues and move on.
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There are a few on this forum who wish we would let it go. One of the biggest lies ever told to the British public. It must be pretty humiliating to have believed it.
 
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