Nat Phillips

[AFCBade]

I mean charged more than the players at the time were worth: Ibe, Brad Smith, Solanke (at the time). Rhian Brewster to SU for 20 million. Minimino this summer. There are clear patterns. Yes, it's our/other clubs' faults for agreeing to those fees. Liverpool will try their luck, though.

Always a matter of opinion of course and hindsight is a wonderful thing but not sure we were ripped off by liverpool at time. Ibe appeared to be a younger and more skilful winger than ritchie and cost a bit more as his replacement; solanke a talented player that had lost his way and it didn’t help he arrived injured and without a run of games; smith unproven but sounded like his high cost was largely bonus related with low upfront cost; nat Phillips loan deal was money well spent etc

 

[Sleepy Cherry]

Always a matter of opinion of course and hindsight is a wonderful thing but not sure we were ripped off by liverpool at time. Ibe appeared to be a younger and more skilful winger than ritchie and cost a bit more as his replacement; solanke a talented player that had lost his way and it didn’t help he arrived injured and without a run of games; smith unproven but sounded like his high cost was largely bonus related with low upfront cost; nat Phillips loan deal was money well spent etc

Agree with you about the Phillips loan. Would have been great to loan Nico Williams too. He's been excellent for Wales recently.

 

[Kudos]

I mean charged more than the players at the time were worth: Ibe, Brad Smith, Solanke (at the time). Rhian Brewster to SU for 20 million. Minimino this summer. There are clear patterns. Yes, it's our/other clubs' faults for agreeing to those fees. Liverpool will try their luck, though.

I think rip off is fair. With Liverpool you're just paying for the label not the player.

 

[LewSwimmin]

Twenty million down the drain
Dom Solanke scores again

 

[Kudos]

Twenty million down the drain
Dom Solanke scores again

We are obviously going to support him on the pitch because he's our player.

However, arguably even Solanke at "£20M" after two years on the books isn't the best bit of business when you look at another Championship top two scorers of the past four years

Mitrovich £22M
Solanke £19M
Ollie Watkins £6.5M
Ivan Toney £5M
Neal Maupay £1.8M
Adam Armstrong £1.7M
Teemu Pukki free

It at least doesn't make up for the other £20M (plus wages) we've wasted on dross from Liverpool.

 

[johnbob]

We are obviously going to support him on the pitch because he's our player.

However, arguably even Solanke at "£20M" after two years on the books isn't the best bit of business when you look at another Championship top two scorers of the past four years

Mitrovich £22M
Solanke £19M
Ollie Watkins £6.5M
Ivan Toney £5M
Neal Maupay £1.8M
Adam Armstrong £1.7M
Teemu Pukki free

It at least doesn't make up for the other £20M (plus wages) we've wasted on dross from Liverpool.

but who’s fault is it we signed that dross from liverpool, the management at the time id say were at fault not the players we signed,

 

[Sleepy Cherry]

We are obviously going to support him on the pitch because he's our player.

However, arguably even Solanke at "£20M" after two years on the books isn't the best bit of business when you look at another Championship top two scorers of the past four years

Mitrovich £22M
Solanke £19M
Ollie Watkins £6.5M
Ivan Toney £5M
Neal Maupay £1.8M
Adam Armstrong £1.7M
Teemu Pukki free

It at least doesn't make up for the other £20M (plus wages) we've wasted on dross from Liverpool.

The proof will be in how he does this year and going forward I guess. We will have developed him, though and made him into a more valuable player. If he's worth 20 million now, I would say that has a lot to do with our coaches, maybe a sports psychologist and his game time with us. He wasn't worth 20 million when we bought him, and that's no disrespect to him. Who would be given the limited game time?

 

[Sleepy Cherry]

but who’s fault is it we signed that dross from liverpool, the management at the time id say were at fault not the players we signed,

Totally

 

[dragonm8]

We are obviously going to support him on the pitch because he's our player.

However, arguably even Solanke at "£20M" after two years on the books isn't the best bit of business when you look at another Championship top two scorers of the past four years

Mitrovich £22M
Solanke £19M
Ollie Watkins £6.5M
Ivan Toney £5M
Neal Maupay £1.8M
Adam Armstrong £1.7M
Teemu Pukki free

It at least doesn't make up for the other £20M (plus wages) we've wasted on dross from Liverpool.

If Solanke can net 12-15 goals in the top tier I think he will be worth the cost.

I have every confidence he is as good as Wilson, and a lot younger.

Confidence is everything and with some more forward thinking signings in Rothwell, possibly Bowler and even the addition of Moore last season.

Dom is capable, and with adequate assistance and cover should prove that he 20 million we spent was worth it.

He is a good finisher, not quite as exciting as Wilson was, but has more potential.

 

[Kudos]

but who’s fault is it we signed that dross from liverpool, the management at the time id say were at fault not the players we signed,

Definitely not the player hence why I lead with that we'd support the player on the pitch. I'm definitely pleased he's here now even if getting him and developing him was fiscally painful.

My point is more that it's not really worth engaging with Liverpool playing hardball because they have a track record of ripping us off.

If Solanke can net 12-15 goals in the top tier I think he will be worth the cost.

I have every confidence he is as good as Wilson, and a lot younger.

Confidence is everything and with some more forward thinking signings in Rothwell, possibly Bowler and even the addition of Moore last season.

Dom is capable, and with adequate assistance and cover should prove that he 20 million we spent was worth it.

He is a good finisher, not quite as exciting as Wilson was, but has more potential.

I mostly agree with that. The obvious issue is that I think he's out of contract in the summer if we can keep on his current contract for another 4 years I'd agree.
The problem is that it would be in his best interests to run his contract down as a good season at only 25 would allow him to command quite the wage/sign-on fee from a free transfer.

 

[northstandmark]

I think rip off is fair. With Liverpool you're just paying for the label not the player.

An element of truth to this for sure.

Solanke for me has justified his fee now. He's been a massive part of why we're now back into the 100m a year league. Whether he can play as big a part in keeping us there we will see, but in terms of his initial fee that no longer deserves any question or mocking (not that it'll stop some).

Ibe was a gamble that didn't pay off. All the talent in training, never translating to the pitch because of his head. I get the feeling Demin won't be sanctioning too many more deals like that, but you can understand why we took the punt. There's a reason Liverpool insisted on various clauses, because even they still thought was a chance he'd convert that talent at some point.

For me the biggest scandal was Brad Smith. He genuinely looked like an amateur player who'd won a competition to become a footballer, not a professional international player.

At least with Nat we know what we're getting. A solid honest pro. It's just a matter of trying not to overpay, if we can help it.

 

[Kudos]

It's not whether or not he's got great potential or a become a leading Championship player that debate is well put to bed. It's whether the £20M and two years was a worthwhile investment.

If he leaves on a free at the end of the season, would that still make the purchase good value?

 

[SlowDownDerek]

It's not whether or not he's got great potential or a become a leading Championship player that debate is well put to bed. It's whether the £20M and two years was a worthwhile investment.

If he leaves on a free at the end of the season, would that still make the purchase good value?

A great championship striker is worth £20m so it was good value even if he leaves on a free after his contract runs out. What do you think he's worth?

 

[MB1980]

Funny how liverpool do want to sell rather than seeing him as a long term replacement for matip

He's clearly not good enough for Liverpool long term, but that doesn;t mean he won't be a very good player for mid to lower table PL teams.

'Elite' clubs clearly have totally different bar for the standard required. In the same we do compared to Barnsley (at the moment anyway).

 

[MB1980]

It's not whether or not he's got great potential or a become a leading Championship player that debate is well put to bed. It's whether the £20M and two years was a worthwhile investment.

If he leaves on a free at the end of the season, would that still make the purchase good value?

without doubt, we may not have been promoted without him. we may have been of course, we can come with hypothetical situations all day, but he scored 15 in the 1st season in the champ, 30 in the 2nd.

We got promoted and anyone that scores 30 goals in a season that ends in your team getting promoted is value at 20 mill imo.

 

[Allen]

We have more than got our money's worth from Dom already. We could sell him now for 30 million. Last season he scored 30 goals and without him we wouldn't have made the playoffs and he was very good the season before.
The turning point for Dom was the game at Leicester. He hasn't looked back since then and just gone from strength to strength and getting better as each month passes by.
He is very similar to Callum Wilson, but Dom is more skillful, some moments that stick out were the half volley against Fulham and that goal he scored when the ball was almost behind him and he backheeled it in the corner (either against Hudd' Cov' or Blackburn). Dom is also a great penalty taker and now he is taking them, earning the right with that pressure pen' against Fulham, he will score 15-20 for us next season.
1 thing we badly miss is a quality set piece taker. In the premier league this will be a massive disadvantage and a waste of players like Moore and Dom's ariel threat and poaching ability.

 

[MB1980]

We have more than got our money's worth from Dom already. We could sell him now for 30 million. Last season he scored 30 goals and without him we wouldn't have made the playoffs and he was very good the season before.
The turning point for Dom was the game at Leicester. He hasn't looked back since then and just gone from strength to strength and getting better as each month passes by.
He is very similar to Callum Wilson, but Dom is more skillful, some moments that stick out were the half volley against Fulham and that goal he scored when the ball was almost behind him and he backheeled it in the corner (either against Hudd' Cov' or Blackburn). Dom is also a great penalty taker and now he is taking them, earning the right with that pressure pen' against Fulham, he will score 15-20 for us next season.
1 thing we badly miss is a quality set piece taker. In the premier league this will be a massive disadvantage and a waste of players like Moore and Dom's ariel threat and poaching ability.

Yeah. Solanke is more technical, whereas Wilson is more about pace and strength.

 

[Kudos]

A great championship striker is worth £20m so it was good value even if he leaves on a free after his contract runs out. What do you think he's worth?

Over the last 4 or 5 years, top scorers in the Championship cost around 25-33% of what we paid. Solanke and Mitrovich are the stand-out exceptions.

What is his contract worth now? About £10M, great Championship striker in the last year of his contract. Add another 3 years and easily £20M.

What was his contract worth 4 years ago? Maybe £5M. You needed to wait 2 years and spend another (allegedly) £5M in wages to get to where he is now.

without doubt, we may not have been promoted without him. we may have been of course, we can come with hypothetical situations all day, but he scored 15 in the 1st season in the champ, 30 in the 2nd.

We got promoted and anyone that scores 30 goals in a season that ends in your team getting promoted is value at 20 mill imo.

Hypothetical situations are a rabbit hole but a typical top scorer in the Champ in recent years averages just under £5M if you exclude Mitro and Solanke.

 

[SlowDownDerek]

Over the last 4 or 5 years, top scorers in the Championship cost around 25-33% of what we paid. Solanke and Mitrovich are the stand-out exceptions.

What is his contract worth now? About £10M, great Championship striker in the last year of his contract. Add another 3 years and easily £20M.

What was his contract worth 4 years ago? Maybe £5M. You needed to wait 2 years and spend another (allegedly) £5M in wages to get to where he is now.



Hypothetical situations are a rabbit hole but a typical top scorer in the Champ in recent years averages just under £5M if you exclude Mitro and Solanke.

No, all of your quoted prices were when they were bought as unproven strikers at championship level. Most of them sold for more than we paid for Solanke once they were proven Championship strikers.

It's disingenuous to say that strikers on average costs £5m - most strikers that cost that don't do that well so you're cherry picking the successes. Successful championship strikers are easily worth £20m especially 24 year old English ones.

 

[Kudos]

No, all of your quoted prices were when they were bought as unproven strikers at championship level. Most of them sold for more than we paid for Solanke once they were proven Championship strikers.

It's disingenuous to say that strikers on average costs £5m - most strikers that cost that don't do that well so you're cherry picking the successes. Successful championship strikers are easily worth £20m especially 24 year old English ones.

Solanke was unproven at Championship level when purchased. You're comparing the "after success" price with the "before success" price. Before success typically under £5 after between £15-£30.

There are no examples in recent history of Championship clubs buying Championship top scorers for obvious reasons so there's no comparison there.

It's disingenuous to say that spending £20M makes a player successful. It took 39 appearances to score his first goal for us. It's also incorrect to say that the Solanke who we bought is no better than the Solanke we have today.

You purchase the player's services, not the player so contract length obviously factors into the valuation. It's kind of been fundamental to our incoming transfer strategy. This time next year without a new contract his value is £0.