Ake

Tinpot Club said:
I’ve never been convinced by this. No way is Neymar on lower wages at PSG because of his huge transfer fee. I suspect he got a not too shabby signing on fee either.

The logic of a free transfer for a big pay day might exist for players at the end of their career but that’s because no one would pay a transfer fee. For players at the prime of their careers, clubs pay top transfer fees with huge wages and signing on fees to boot.
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It is definitely the case beyond players in Neymars bracket! And seeing as we don’t have any of those....
 
Brents Goulet said:
It is definitely the case beyond players in Neymars bracket! And seeing as we don’t have any of those....
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I know the theory but I’m really struggling to think of a single player since Sol Campbell to sign for a PL club on a free transfer at the peak of their career. And even if they have, they’d still have got a huge salary with a conventional transfer.

Its irrelevant saying Aké isn’t in Neymar’s bracket. When he leaves he’s going to get huge wages and a huge signing on fee. Whether that’s in January, June or when his contract expires it won’t make a difference to him.

I mean think about it. Put yourself in the agents shoes. If a club values their client at £75m instead of £40m or nothing, then you are obviously going to ask for a higher salary not a lower one!
 
Apparently Ake and his wife are learning Spanish, perhaps preparing for their next move? That would mean a more realistic price for him.
 
Tinpot Club said:
I know the theory but I’m really struggling to think of a single player since Sol Campbell to sign for a PL club on a free transfer at the peak of their career. And even if they have, they’d still have got a huge salary with a conventional transfer.

Its irrelevant saying Aké isn’t in Neymar’s bracket. When he leaves he’s going to get huge wages and a huge signing on fee. Whether that’s in January, June or when his contract expires it won’t make a difference to him.

I mean think about it. Put yourself in the agents shoes. If a club values their client at £75m instead of £40m or nothing, then you are obviously going to ask for a higher salary not a lower one!
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It would suit the Ake camp (his advisors) for the player to leave for 40m, not 75m. It’s better that way.
 
Tinpot Club said:
I know the theory but I’m really struggling to think of a single player since Sol Campbell to sign for a PL club on a free transfer at the peak of their career. And even if they have, they’d still have got a huge salary with a conventional transfer.
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Milner to Liverpool.
Matip to Liverpool.
Kolasinac to Arsenal.
Bernard to Everton.

They're out there if you root around a bit. If those players were bought they would still have got a big deal. The argument is, if they have a good agent, the lack of a transfer fee will mean they have leverage to get an even bigger deal.

Take the alleged Defoe signing on fee when he joined us. Whatever the actual sum, all the talk at the time was how a significant portion was in lieu of a transfer fee.
 
kirsikka said:
Take the alleged Defoe signing on fee when he joined us. Whatever the actual sum, all the talk at the time was how a significant portion was in lieu of a transfer fee.
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But Defoe is exactly the type of end of career bumper pay day deal I’m referring to. There obviously are *some* examples of Bosman deals in the PL for players in their mid 20’s, but I’d be almost certain they would be at the lower end of earners at their clubs. If these Bosman deals were so lucrative there would be a tenfold increase. This doesn’t happen because players and agents make more money by signing new contracts and forcing a move when necessary.
 
Defoe was an example just to show how the signing on fees are bumped up. He wasn't out of contract but exercised a release clause when Sunderland got relegated. If his contract hadn't contained that then he would still have commanded a significant fee given his form in the previous season.

According to this (extreme pinch of salt) website, Bernard is the top earner at Everton. That's ahead of proven PL perfomers like Sigurdsson or Walcott and all their other huge signings in recent times. . The World Cup performer Mina signed from Barcelona. And so on.

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/everton-f.c/payroll/

Aaron Ramsey went to Juventus on a free to sign on for 400k/week.

If your agent doesn't get you significantly higher wages when you sign on a free then it's time sack him/her and get a new one.

The reason it doesn't happen more is risk not because you get the same money. Right now Ryan Fraser is one career threatening injury away from losing £10s of millions. I might be harsh but, subconciously at least, I believe that's been affecting his game this year.

He could sign the deal with us now and get the security of that contract then try and force through a move later. There must be a reason why he isn't... it can only be him and his agent believe they can get a bigger overall package by waiting. And that includes allowing for 18 months of lost wages at the higher bracket. At the moment all the risk lies with him, not us.

Many players won't want to take that risk because, as you said, they can usually engineer a deal anyway. It may cost them a certain amount of what they could earn if they waited but most people would take the safer option in that scenario.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Do you think you might be a bit oversensitive? I've asked a question not given an opinion on your opinion.
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Oversensitive no, your a joker who I can't seriously. As I‘ve found out in the past, your not worth arguing with. I’m surprised you’ve not got that message yet!
 
kirsikka said:
Defoe was an example just to show how the signing on fees are bumped up. He wasn't out of contract but exercised a release clause when Sunderland got relegated. If his contract hadn't contained that then he would still have commanded a significant fee given his form in the previous season.

According to this (extreme pinch of salt) website, Bernard is the top earner at Everton. That's ahead of proven PL perfomers like Sigurdsson or Walcott and all their other huge signings in recent times. . The World Cup performer Mina signed from Barcelona. And so on.

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/everton-f.c/payroll/

Aaron Ramsey went to Juventus on a free to sign on for 400k/week.

If your agent doesn't get you significantly higher wages when you sign on a free then it's time sack him/her and get a new one.

The reason it doesn't happen more is risk not because you get the same money. Right now Ryan Fraser is one career threatening injury away from losing £10s of millions. I might be harsh but, subconciously at least, I believe that's been affecting his game this year.

He could sign the deal with us now and get the security of that contract then try and force through a move later. There must be a reason why he isn't... it can only be him and his agent believe they can get a bigger overall package by waiting. And that includes allowing for 18 months of lost wages at the higher bracket. At the moment all the risk lies with him, not us.

Many players won't want to take that risk because, as you said, they can usually engineer a deal anyway. It may cost them a certain amount of what they could earn if they waited but most people would take the safer option in that scenario.
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Which is absolutely why it is nailed on that there is zero chance that Ryan will perform a u turn and sign a new deal, he has obviously had his heart set on running his contract down for a while now either for the reasons you outlined above or alternatively, in the hope that a European challenging team would take a punt on him on a free if he was realistic with his wage demands. My reckoning is that one of the historic top six (or Wolves or Leicester) will look at his stats from last season and reckon he is worth a punt as a squad player, I think he might genuinely want a crack at challenging himself at this level as apposed to being motivated by financial gain. It’s a fine balance between wanting to test yourself as high as possible and actually making sure that you are playing at all during the best years of your career however, unfortunately for Ryan I really don’t think he possesses the quality required to achieve his ambitions and will spend an awful lot of time either warming somebody else’s bench or sat in the stands. But then again he may be able to look back on his career when he retires with a few medals in his back pocket, even if he was only a minor squad player in these successes, similar to the Swiss guy at lpool who’s name I cannot spell!
 
Waz afcb said:
Which is absolutely why it is nailed on that there is zero chance that Ryan will perform a u turn and sign a new deal, he has obviously had his heart set on running his contract down for a while now either for the reasons you outlined above or alternatively, in the hope that a European challenging team would take a punt on him on a free if he was realistic with his wage demands. My reckoning is that one of the historic top six (or Wolves or Leicester) will look at his stats from last season and reckon he is worth a punt as a squad player, I think he might genuinely want a crack at challenging himself at this level as apposed to being motivated by financial gain. It’s a fine balance between wanting to test yourself as high as possible and actually making sure that you are playing at all during the best years of your career however, unfortunately for Ryan I really don’t think he possesses the quality required to achieve his ambitions and will spend an awful lot of time either warming somebody else’s bench or sat in the stands. But then again he may be able to look back on his career when he retires with a few medals in his back pocket, even if he was only a minor squad player in these successes, similar to the Swiss guy at lpool who’s name I cannot spell!
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One funny thing is that very often a player's true quality isn't observable until they're in a team of players of similar (or better) quality.
So I do wonder how Fraser would "look" playing for, say, Liverpool. My hunch is he would be involved in a lot more goals than he ever was here.
 
canadiancherry said:
One funny thing is that very often a player's true quality isn't observable until they're in a team of players of similar (or better) quality.
So I do wonder how Fraser would "look" playing for, say, Liverpool. My hunch is he would be involved in a lot more goals than he ever was here.
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The converse can also be true. When they are the main man at a smaller club a lot of the play is often filtered through them. When they move to a bigger club where they are just one of several excellent options on the pitch they sometimes seem to struggle relatively since less of the overall team play is based around getting them specifically on the ball in dangerous situations.
 
kirsikka said:
The converse can also be true. When they are the main man at a smaller club a lot of the play is often filtered through them. When they move to a bigger club where they are just one of several excellent options on the pitch they sometimes seem to struggle relatively since less of the overall team play is based around getting them specifically on the ball in dangerous situations.
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Shaqiri immediately comes to mind.
 
horndean_exile said:
Apparently Ake and his wife are learning Spanish, perhaps preparing for their next move? That would mean a more realistic price for him.
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Or maybe they want to make Rico and Jeff feel more at home

As for the transfer thing, it's different for Spanish clubs, cute to labour law over there the players contract must be purchased, that's why Neymar and Christiano Ronaldo transfers had such large headline figures, as along with compensating the club they have to pay up the remainder of the players wages to the selling club
 
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