DJ
Moderator
Bang average players like Marc Pugh, Charlie Daniels, Steve Cook, Tommy Elphick, Harry Arter and Lewis Grabban who all went from bottom of League One to Premier League?
Jonathan Woodgate
- Thread starter NWCherries98
- Start date
Bang average players like Marc Pugh, Charlie Daniels, Steve Cook, Tommy Elphick, Harry Arter and Lewis Grabban who all went from bottom of League One to Premier League?
SlowDownDerek
UTC Legend
You'd made your mind up on this before his first game. He took on an underperforming squad with no confidence. If he was as bad as you say they wouldn't have started the season well and looked like they had shaken off the confidence crisis from the previous season. They'd have sunk like a stone like all other relegated teams do.
He got underperforming players performing in Solanke, Danjuma, Begovic. He got Lewis Cook preforming better than he had in years and he had them coming out most second halfs firing on all cylinders. He didn't lose for ages and when he eventually did he had them bounce back with wins every time in the first half of the season.
I don't think he was very good, he stuck to a formation that wasn't working for too long and ultimately lost the dressing room but you're completely rewriting history describing him as the worst manager we've ever had. All because you nailed your colours to the mast about him early doors and ran off when you were rightly criticised for it.
You still trot out this "best squad in the league" line despite it being clear that only our midfield and possibly wide players would get in the first teams of those sides above us in the table. Most of us said Watford and Norwich had squads as strong or better than ours yet you wouldn't have it.
no - DJ's right - Groves did manage those players, and made them look "bang average".
JT took over expecting Wilson Ake and king to go.expected some money to 're invest never happened.brought CCV and riquelne in on loan and then Pearson and long on loan in January.faie to say CCV and Pearson have done well.we all know the saga that went on with king every week and he had to deal with that .Jones going and Woodgate coming wasn't something he wanted.if his results were flipped he woukd probably still be here.calling him our worst manager and a clown are bang out of order IMO.I.woodgate is in charge now and let's hope he continues getting the results and leads us back to the premiership.
CherryBare
UTC Legend
The worst manager in our history, where we were never out the top 6. Were you at Swindon or Crawley when groves was in charge? Did you see the Benson team?
I didn't want JT appointed but really read what you've posted.
davidwhitehead
Fans' Favourite
I don't think Neil is saying that JT was our worst manager ever, but in terms of performance versus talent he was. Quite a difference.
Don't agree with this, but it's an interesting discussion.
Don't agree with this, but it's an interesting discussion.
Topfarrier
UTC Legend
Only someone who was as determined as you were for JT to fail would write this cr@p......he had to change the ridiculous formation did he? lol.......he wanted to play it!... in fact not only did he want us to play with 3 at the back he actually made it worse by playing 4 central midfielders with it!!!.....we threw away two games against QPR and Cardiff playing that abomination! ....lol tNeil that selective memory of yours never ceases to amaze me
Topfarrier
UTC Legend
Norwich....Coventry....Barnsley....Huddersfield.......Birmingham....Forest....Brentford......Swansea.....just off the top of my head.....so how many games have we played really well in under Woody?..
Vlad_The_Impaler
First Team
I like Woodgate's charisma and find him interesting in interviews, I think that has helped him get the best out of some of the talented players we have in the Championship.
But personality can only get you so far and he doesn't have the intelligence of Eddie and I don't think he could last, he was bought in to work under JT, if we don't go up it's not his fault or JT's but I don't see a whole season of him in charge working out either.
But personality can only get you so far and he doesn't have the intelligence of Eddie and I don't think he could last, he was bought in to work under JT, if we don't go up it's not his fault or JT's but I don't see a whole season of him in charge working out either.
Neil Dawson
UTC Legend
100%. Trouble is David people read what they want to read. Statistically he is far from being our worst manager ever. But statistically JW is currently a better manager than Eddie or Harry which is equally as untrue.
You judge a manager with what they do with the talent they have at their disposal and I don’t think a manager has mismanaged talent, performance wise as much as JT.
We do have the best squad in this division, nothing will tell me otherwise. We have played the top two Del mentions thrice and they have taken the grand total of one point off us. Even if we lose to Norwich on Saturday it will be 4 points out of 12 all taken on their own patches.
We didn’t seal a deal with Eddie to let the suntanned clown take the job and it could have been the most expensive mistake we ever made. Ironically the fact that JW, who I agree by the way is an average manager, may rescue this situation shows how good this squad is. Imagine them with a top appointment.
USCherry
UTC Legend
Exactly. How does a, let’s say, unproven manager take more or less the same squad from a 40% win rate to over 60%? The previous manager having the advantage of several years of knowledge over the players and squad he inherited current manager having zero affiliation with club or squad
SlowDownDerek
UTC Legend
So when we beat team it's because we've got "the best squad in the league"TM but when we lose its down to "the worst manager we've ever had" TM ?
Norwich had their best two midfielders out and Tindall got the tactics spot on against them. How many of our players get in Watford or Norwich's teams?
JT started well but ultimately he wasn't able to stop the slump that had started under Howe and deservedly got sacked. Worst manager ever? You've gone nuts.
Neil Dawson
UTC Legend
Ok. Here’s a good game then. Who out of Watford’s side gets in our team and who are you dropping to make way for them.
Red_till_im_ded
Fans' Favourite
Credit where it's due. The lad turned up at the club, knew pretty much no one and then a few days later is managing the team. The squad was a ness, the first team coach had done a runner and our form was worse than a 100/1 shot. He's turned that around. He's learnt his players attributes and skills. He's tinkered until settling on a fairly regular 11, he's brought a bit of confidence back, he's relating well with the players. In short, he's managing the team. We're on a run, 5 in a row, we're looking good for the playoffs and who knows we may actually win them but the bottom line is had we carried on the way we were going before JW then we would have slipped into obscurity.
CherryBare
UTC Legend
Well groves squad was taken by Eddie from bottom div 1 to promotion, my point earlier was the games at Swindon and Crawley were far worse than JT, again for the squad we had in div 1, being near the bottom was pretty appalling
DJ
Moderator
Indeed, all Eddie had to do was walk into the building and that squad turned things around.
They then overhauled a 20 point gap to Tranmere in 4 months. Of course Howe gets credit for developing them further, but to compare to Tindall and end up looking favourably on Groves? Some history is being rewritten there.
Tindall, who was working amidst a global pandemic, truncated seasons, natural shake up of relegation from the Premier League, the loss of £80m worth of talent in Ramsdale, Ake and Wilson. The disruption of Josh King and yet still had them top for a bit and never out of the top 6.
All the while working under the pressure from the top, who made it clear he was a sitting duck the moment he lost his first game. But didn’t give him the power over who he wanted to keep, who would be offered contracts, who would be sold etc.
SlowDownDerek
UTC Legend
Their keeper, back four, sarr and Joao Pedro get in ahead of Stan/Brooks and Solanke. The rest is 50/50.
I remember when we probed you on this "the best squad in the league" TM assertion at the start of the season it turned out you just weren't familiar with anyone else's squad.
Neil Dawson
UTC Legend
Stan doesn’t start in our best team... you dropping Danjuma? No, didn’t think so.
No keeper is an uptick on Begovic.
Troost Ekong and Sierralta are not better than Cook and CCV.
Massina is a better left back than Kelly and Rico and Sarr and Pedro I’d have ahead of Brooks and Solanke. That’s it.
There is a reason they took one point out of six against us and thought Gosling would improve them you know Del.
