Kieffer Moore

[Neil Dawson]

I think he can start, but you have to make more sacrifices to the rest of the shape to get the best out of him. Having Solanke and Billing not playing to their strengths is a waste to accommodate Moore. Especially as it doesn’t even play to Moore’s strengths either.

100%. No problem with starting Moore every week if we rain crosses in on him, Solanke is alongside him and we have width. That would be a brave starting line up so occasional, or better as an ending line up when losing anywhere or drawing at home.

Playing him to run the channels or as a last man with everyone else sacrificed was just bizarre. We looked like a lower league team yesterday in set up and the way we played.

Since the last year of Eddie, through JT and into Parker we have been a side set up to play without the ball and to play on the break… If that’s your case then Moore is only ever a sub. Contrast it to the havoc Kermorgant used to cause in a team that crossed the ball for fun.

I hope we don’t see yesterdays formation again and it’s a concern we saw it at all.

 

[Cherry Warrior]

Think Moore's inclusion in the starting line-up may have also been to add some height when defending set pieces. Brentford had some big lads in their team and did put some high balls in for Toney which I thought we dealt with pretty well. Agree that Moore has his limitations at this level, a modern day Fletch.!!

Agree that Moore was in team as much defensively as offensively yesterday. Not long after the giant Jansson went off injured then Moore was taken off so think that also illustrated the fact.
Solanke would have struggled to hold the ball up against their defence.....but then again was strange that Moore kept getting the ball wide? Unless that wasn't the plan but Brentford compressed our play in a way to force him out wide....dont know but they are no mugs!

 

[Neil Dawson]

Agree that Moore was in team as much defensively as offensively yesterday. Not long after the giant Jansson went off injured then Moore was taken off so think that also illustrated the fact.
Solanke would have struggled to hold the ball up against their defence.....but then again was strange that Moore kept getting the ball wide? Unless that wasn't the plan but Brentford compressed our play in a way to force him out wide....dont know but they are no mugs!

We played a big lump who has played an entire career outside the PL against some big lumps who are PL quality. He was never going to get any change. The reason their away defensive record is so poor is they lack pace at the back. We saw it once when Tavernier burst on to the ball over the top and looked like he was Usain Bolt. Not once other than that did we try to exploit this. Not our caretaking teams finest hour but hopefully they will have learned from it. Leicester are awfully exposed at the back but have some decent attackers, if we play sitting back against them then we need our heads examining. We need wins in this run because then we go back to harder teams.

 

[BoscombeCherry]

Like the guy, but isn't a PL starter is he?

Lovely guy, nice bloke, got us up from the League below.

But by Christ, he looks so cumbersome and slow of thought at this level.

Great to have on the bench for the last 20 or something, but Jesus FCk, not a starter at this level?

Tell me I'm wrong.

In the system we played yesterday, I agree to a point. If we're going to start him, we need to play to his strengths. If we're in a system where we're getting crossed into the box and having players looking to feed off flick-ons of knock downs (of which there weren't many yesterday to be fair) it could work. I like him, think he's a good option for us but wasn't great yesterday but did put a shift in.

 

[Pete17]

In the system we played yesterday, I agree to a point. If we're going to start him, we need to play to his strengths. If we're in a system where we're getting crossed into the box and having players looking to feed off flick-ons of knock downs (of which there weren't many yesterday to be fair) it could work. I like him, think he's a good option for us but wasn't great yesterday but did put a shift in.

As i said on another thread we either need to play wingers on their correct side or inverted wingers with full backs overlapping

 

[Ken Baileys Ghost]

Like the guy, but isn't a PL starter is he?

Lovely guy, nice bloke, got us up from the League below.

But by Christ, he looks so cumbersome and slow of thought at this level.

Great to have on the bench for the last 20 or something, but Jesus FCk, not a starter at this level?

Tell me I'm wrong.

Admit it.

You just don't like him because he reminds you of The Wardrobe.

 

[afcdibby]

His first touch yesterday was often heavy.

 

[wayne189@]

I think he’s the type of striker you bring to change things late on but we don’t have a lot of width for crosses. Don’t think either him or Solanke are prem level and scoring is going to be very hard all season. Our D has not looked to bad this season baring pool game

 

[bigfatolly]

In the right system with the right service he can score goals and provide assists.
His one chance against Villa he stuck away,would have had an assist yesterday for Lerma if not for Toney clearing off the line.
He has scored against good sides in International football.
Unfortunately we don't and won't play to his strengths.

 

[MB1980]

Two weeks ago some Newcastle fans were calling for EH to be replaced .they are 7th position having lost just once.. .why are.so many Football Fans so fickle and largely thick as planks not seeing further than the last result ?

All players should be supported and given positive encouragement until the day they are gone from the club.

A small minority of Newcastle fans harbour hopes of getting an 'elite' manager at the helm and sooner rather than later. Recall meeting a mate last season, who had a Nerwcastle fan colleague, and he wanted Howe out. Same everywhere, you always get some with those kind of views.

Most Newcastle fans love him.

 

[MB1980]

We played a big lump who has played an entire career outside the PL against some big lumps who are PL quality. He was never going to get any change. The reason their away defensive record is so poor is they lack pace at the back. We saw it once when Tavernier burst on to the ball over the top and looked like he was Usain Bolt. Not once other than that did we try to exploit this. Not our caretaking teams finest hour but hopefully they will have learned from it. Leicester are awfully exposed at the back but have some decent attackers, if we play sitting back against them then we need our heads examining. We need wins in this run because then we go back to harder teams.

Yes, I was saying to my mate after 20-30 mins this 2 up front (of sorts), trying to use Moore to win a physical battle v 2 very good, extremely physical PL level centre backs seems futile. Rather than try and match, beat them, we should have conceded it was a losing battle and try to outsmart them: move the ball around quicker, open them up on the ground instead.

Weirdly, we ended up with Moore in possession out wide, in decent crossing positions for most of our attacks... that couldn';t have been the plan surely, so think it hjighlights how Brentford well 'managed us' .

As already mentioned by many, lack of width and movement, particularly on left was awful. Despite it appearing more offensive on paper, If you;re going to play with 2 up front, you run the risk of actually creating a lot less if not setup effectively, or have the right players, as you get overran in midfield and end up looking pretty impotent, especially at this level, when one of the weaker teams in the league. Solanke works hard, but I wouldn't say pace and flair is the strongest part of his game. It certainly isn;t for Moore and Billing (although as we know, Billing has ability to do something magical out of the blue from time to time, but I wouldn;t say he's consistently creative, at least not enough to be relied on as a creative outlet).

Solid enough point, but desperately need someone like Brooks or Stan (whether either are up to this level anymore, I have reservations). Someone who has ability to do something different. We looked like a well drilled functional unit, but need a game changer or 2, that offers the threat of giving the opposition concern around doing something unpredictable: pace and flair basically. On a positive note, going by last few games, the way we play seems more suited to away games, soaking up a bit of pressure, with more threat on the counter, as the opposition more likely to play with an attacking outlook/style at their own place. Can't see us getting many wins at home if we continue in this vein (although O Neil won;t get the job beyond November/December time imo.)

 

[Neil Dawson]

Yes, I was saying to my mate after 20-30 mins this 2 up front (of sorts), trying to use Moore to win a physical battle v 2 very good, extremely physical PL level centre backs seems futile. Rather than try and match, beat them, we should have conceded it was a losing battle and try to outsmart them: move the ball around quicker, open them up on the ground instead.

Weirdly, we ended up with Moore in possession out wide, in decent crossing positions for most of our attacks... that couldn';t have been the plan surely, so think it hjighlights how Brentford well 'managed us' .

As already mentioned by many, lack of width and movement, particularly on left was awful. Despite it appearing more offensive on paper, If you;re going to play with 2 up front, you run the risk of actually creating a lot less if not setup effectively, or have the right players, as you get overran in midfield and end up looking pretty impotent, especially at this level, when one of the weaker teams in the league. Solanke works hard, but I wouldn't say pace and flair is the strongest part of his game. It certainly isn;t for Moore and Billing (although as we know, Billing has ability to do something magical out of the blue from time to time, but I wouldn;t say he's consistently creative, at least not enough to be relied on as a creative outlet).

Solid enough point, but desperately need someone like Brooks or Stan (whether either are up to this level anymore, I have reservations). Someone who has ability to do something different. We looked like a well drilled functional unit, but need a game changer or 2, that offers the threat of giving the opposition concern around doing something unpredictable: pace and flair basically. On a positive note, going by last few games, the way we play seems more suited to away games, soaking up a bit of pressure, with more threat on the counter, as the opposition more likely to play with an attacking outlook/style at their own place. Can't see us getting many wins at home if we continue in this vein (although O Neil won;t get the job beyond November/December time imo.)

Agree with 90% of that. I don’t think we are set up to play on break away from home though because you need pace. When we did it at Forest we had Anthony and Frederiks on and moved Tavernier to the flank. That was three quick players to go with Solanke. Unlikely we will do that from the start (sadly). That was the madness of Saturday…even if he couldn’t spot it before the match (which is worrying) he watched Tavernier win a sprint starting from behind the players he was chasing. That was the point he should have thought I will bring Anthony or Dembele on but no…. Christie playing on his wrong foot and cutting in. A big chance blown.

 

[MB1980]

Agree with 90% of that. I don’t think we are set up to play on break away from home though because you need pace. When we did it at Forest we had Anthony and Frederiks on and moved Tavernier to the flank. That was three quick players to go with Solanke. Unlikely we will do that from the start (sadly). That was the madness of Saturday…even if he couldn’t spot it before the match (which is worrying) he watched Tavernier win a sprint starting from behind the players he was chasing. That was the point he should have thought I will bring Anthony or Dembele on but no…. Christie playing on his wrong foot and cutting in. A big chance blown.

Yes, fair points. He also made the brave decision to sacrifice Zemura, which I thought was a bit weird as he looked one of our, if not our main threat v Forest. As actually wanted to be direct, cutting in/out, breaking the mould of a very predictable performance. Obviously it was a great decision in the end.

Part of me feels he's doing a good job of steadying the ship, draws not end of world at home (particularly if not losing away), but if we have a poor month, as in draw a couple, lose a few in so called 'easier' looking fixtures, in then means the new manager will have to win in the tougher games as season progresses. Can;t afford to throw away too many points in these kind of home games, or it will take its toll as season reaches final 3rd I expect.

I think thats my concern with O'Neil. He's demonstrated some incredible results, particularly given the state of us after Parkers previous few. But can;t help feeling if he can;t adapt, too cautious at home, other managers will work us out, and we'll end up losing and drawing most of our other games if O Neil gets the job and persists with this style.

I at least hope we don;t persist with Moore and Solanke, at least starting. Need to be playing 433/451/42341, however you want to call it, getting attacking mids/midfielders forward to support the striker with energy. If he keeps shoe horning Moore in to start with Solanke, that would be concerning.

 

[Neil Dawson]

Yes, fair points. He also made the brave decision to sacrifice Zemura, which I thought was a bit weird as he looked one of our, if not our main threat v Forest. As actually wanted to be direct, cutting in/out, breaking the mould of a very predictable performance. Obviously it was a great decision in the end.

Part of me feels he's doing a good job of steadying the ship, draws not end of world at home (particularly if not losing away), but if we have a poor month, as in draw a couple, lose a few in so called 'easier' looking fixtures, in then means the new manager will have to win in the tougher games as season progresses. Can;t afford to throw away too many points in these kind of home games, or it will take its toll as season reaches final 3rd I expect.

I think thats my concern with O'Neil. He's demonstrated some incredible results, particularly given the state of us after Parkers previous few. But can;t help feeling if he can;t adapt, too cautious at home, other managers will work us out, and we'll end up losing and drawing most of our other games if O Neil gets the job and persists with this style.

Yes. Steadying the ship has been achieved. Do you push on or not… if he wanted to stake a claim for the job he should have thrown a bit more at that last ten minutes. He was presumably very much part of the way we played last year and set up this year. I don’t see much identifiable change, we still want to concede possession and chase the ball which will lead to tiredness and injuries. I hope our next manager wants to play a bit higher up the pitch with slightly more possession and width (granted not against the top six). We need a Bournemouth style football manager again and not one of these St George’s Park over coached people.

 

[MB1980]

Yes. Steadying the ship has been achieved. Do you push on or not… if he wanted to stake a claim for the job he should have thrown a bit more at that last ten minutes. He was presumably very much part of the way we played last year and set up this year. I don’t see much identifiable change, we still want to concede possession and chase the ball which will lead to tiredness and injuries. I hope our next manager wants to play a bit higher up the pitch with slightly more possession and width (granted not against the top six). We need a Bournemouth style football manager again and not one of these St George’s Park over coached people.

Yeah I know what you mean. Kind of like Villas-Boas, apparently from technical, scientific standpoint he was 2nd to none, but doesn;t always translate to real world results. Need a bit of inspiration, magic, flair too rather than primarily technical focus mgmt style.

A little like the cliche you sometimes hear people say about extremely intelligent (IQ wise) people from uni's that don;t always deliver in the real world/ability to just 'get things done', despite having brain power, theory, knowledge etc. Analysis, knowledge of course is always good, but not if causes over thinking/complication and you can't communicate it properly to players..

 

[KingKieffer]

The main thing I really don’t get with O’Neil is why we keep reverting back to a back 4. Against both Forest and Newcastle we were far better when we went to the three yet he just reverts back to the four for the next game again every time.

 

[DJ]

The main thing I really don’t get with O’Neil is why we keep reverting back to a back 4. Against both Forest and Newcastle we were far better when we went to the three yet he just reverts back to the four for the next game again every time.

Ignoring the merits of the two systems that's going to be down to the people he has available.

We switched to wingbacks late on against Brentford, with Zemura on the right. It's hardly ideal.

 

[KingKieffer]

Ignoring the merits of the two systems that's going to be down to the people he has available.

We switched to wingbacks late on against Brentford, with Zemura on the right. It's hardly ideal.

Of course it is, but he does have the players available to do it. He could easily drop Lerma into the back three or if he feels he needs him in midfield then play Jack Stephens in the three. Just don’t get why he wouldn’t go all out to play in a way we are clearly more comfortable with.

 

[punkrockcherry]

At the start of this season, some people were worried about Mepham - "not good enough, need a new right-sided centre-back etc" - suddenly, after a run in the side people are realising that Mepham is a decent defender afterall.

Kieffer played well against Villa, but has been in and out of the side since then - no chance to build up an understanding with his team mates, no chance to stay match fit - no wonder he looked a bit rusty.

Let's cut the guy some slack, rather than condemn him to the bin of "not good enough".

 

[KingKieffer]

At the start of this season, some people were worried about Mepham - "not good enough, need a new right-sided centre-back etc" - suddenly, after a run in the side people are realising that Mepham is a decent defender afterall.

Kieffer played well against Villa, but has been in and out of the side since then - no chance to build up an understanding with his team mates, no chance to stay match fit - no wonder he looked a bit rusty.

Let's cut the guy some slack, rather than condemn him to the bin of "not good enough".

Not seen many say he’s not good enough, just that he shouldn’t be played as a lone striker.