Non - Brexit

Democracy, Communizm, Dictatorships......all have their Merits and Demerits in terms of where you were born in the World and what set of Fortune Cards you were dealt at birth. Is there actually a near perfect System that would almost nullify all Conflict....is there a future Genius of Christ or Mohamed like Status that could gel it all together with said system.....because at present it seems Conflict is the Prime Mover of Life whether we like it or not.....and most of us are buying into it!
We are after all said and done...Animals?
 
BillMcgarrycherry said:
The journalists are grasping for yet more metaphors to pad out the lack of real newsworthy TV time alloted to Brexit. The Elephants in the Room are treading on all the Cans being Kicked down the Road to stop them all floating along the Thames and impeding the Ships that Pass in the Night!
God help me its so.......2-15-18-9-7 !
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Don’t think those cans will last long with Elephants kicking and treading on them. ;)
 
I feel like democracy is a very wide-ranging concept. Certainly, Teresa may paying a group of religious zealots, from sort of another 'country', £1 billion, to control the direction of the rest, doesnt feel very democratic. The Uk doesnt feel particularly democratic, with a moncarchy, a house of lords and a huge bloated civil service. But hey Europe. that isnt democratic , bla bla bla.
Time to forget the ridiculous referendum and carry on as normal. Happy to take up arms to protect the country from right-wing paedo botherers in the event that they get angry.
 
chetnik said:
I feel like democracy is a very wide-ranging concept. Certainly, Teresa may paying a group of religious zealots, from sort of another 'country', £1 billion, to control the direction of the rest, doesnt feel very democratic. The Uk doesnt feel particularly democratic, with a moncarchy, a house of lords and a huge bloated civil service. But hey Europe. that isnt democratic , bla bla bla.
Time to forget the ridiculous referendum and carry on as normal. Happy to take up arms to protect the country from right-wing paedo botherers in the event that they get angry.
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Sort of another country? They are elected members of the UK Parliament whatever you might think of them. It is their job to convince the government to invest in their constituencies just like any other MP. This is such an arrogantly English-centric take on things. I agree with next to nothing that the DUP stands for but I wish out local MPs had enough about them to force the government to invest in Dorset.

As for 'carrying on as normal' whilst simultaneously taking up arms in some sort of civil war to protect our EU way of life... :rofl: people have gone absolutely mental about this they really have.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Sort of another country? They are elected members of the UK Parliament whatever you might think of them. It is their job to convince the government to invest in their constituencies just like any other MP. This is such an arrogantly English-centric take on things. I agree with next to nothing that the DUP stands for but I wish out local MPs had enough about them to force the government to invest in Dorset.

As for 'carrying on as normal' whilst simultaneously taking up arms in some sort of civil war to protect our EU way of life... :rofl: people have gone absolutely mental about this they really have.
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"This is such an arrogantly English-centric take on things.". Have you been reading Fintan O'Toole again? :)
 
dutchcherry said:
"This is such an arrogantly English-centric take on things.". Have you been reading Fintan O'Toole again? :)
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No, I got lost in his circular logic that the English are consumed by an arrogant superiority complex that manifests itself in self-pity and that we hark back to the glory days of empire whilst fantasising about being colonised .. proven by references to modern fiction classics such as 50 shades of Grey.

The problem you get when you try and summarise a whole diverse nation based on a vote where 52% voted for one thing for a huge range of different reasons is that it is likely to be complete b*llocks.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
No, I got lost in his circular logic that the English are consumed by an arrogant superiority complex that manifests itself in self-pity and that we hark back to the glory days of empire whilst fantasising about being colonised .. proven by references to modern fiction classics such as 50 shades of Grey.

The problem you get when you try and summarise a whole diverse nation based on a vote where 52% voted for one thing for a huge range of different reasons is that it is likely to be complete b*llocks.
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"It affects the ability of normal people to control the decisions that are made about their lives, which is literally the entire reason they cast their vote in the first place".
 
SlowDownDerek said:
No, I got lost in his circular logic that the English are consumed by an arrogant superiority complex that manifests itself in self-pity and that we hark back to the glory days of empire whilst fantasising about being colonised .. proven by references to modern fiction classics such as 50 shades of Grey.

The problem you get when you try and summarise a whole diverse nation based on a vote where 52% voted for one thing for a huge range of different reasons is that it is likely to be complete b*llocks.
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Fair play. I'm reading his book at the moment and I cant see his line of argument to be honest. Might be applicable for a few people but certainly not 52%.
 
dutchcherry said:
Fair play. I'm reading his book at the moment and I cant see his line of argument to be honest. Might be applicable for a few people but certainly not 52%.
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He comes across as guilty of a lot of the negative traits he associates with the English - arrogant, condescending, liable to make sweeping generalisations, etc.

We are definitely guilty of these traits... just like everyone else.
 
RobTrent said:
Simply reminding you about your previous comment to summarise a whole nation.
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Didn't I clarify last time that my point was that every vote is an individual's attempt to influence the decisions that affect their lives? Which is true.

It wasn't a comment about what they actually vote for. Unlike O'Toole I've not drawn any conclusions about that.
 
52% of those eligible to vote in GB voted leave.

Bit of confusion over the use of English, nation and 52% in the thread.

Now which one of these two is worthy of your vote ?

Tusk
In 2014, he became President of the European Council, and was re-elected to this position in 2017. He resigned as Polish Prime Minister to take the role, having been the longest-serving Prime Minister of the Third Polish Republic.

Chope
chairman of the Thatcherite Conservative Way Forward group and used to be a barrister in the Chambers of Peter Rawlinson.
During the expenses scandal of 2009, it emerged that Chope claimed £136,992 in parliamentary expenses in 2007-8. This included claiming £881 to repair a sofa.
On 11 October 2011, Chope questioned the time allotted to a debate on MPs' pensions. Because this debate came before a debate into the Hillsborough disaster inquiry, it was reported that Chope had threatened to delay the inquiry, leading to widespread criticism of Chope's actions.
Chope was criticised in January 2013 for referring to House of Commons dining room staff as "servants" in a speech.
Chope was appointed a Knight Bachelor in the 2018 New Year Honours for political and public service.

Post 29 March Chope will still be receiving our money as an MP.
 
We may well live in a democracy but good grief it is a dreadful antiquated system that only benefits the two large parties. It's all very well saying you can vote people out, but here in most of Dorset the Tories are so entrenched that however dreadful they are they will get re elected. FPTP needs to be abolished, but unlikely, as will effect power for the big boys. So we are stuck with it. Only hope is we keep getting minority governments and reform will be forced upon them.
 
JIMNNINA said:
52% of those eligible to vote in GB voted leave.

Bit of confusion over the use of English, nation and 52% in the thread.

Now which one of these two is worthy of your vote ?

Tusk
In 2014, he became President of the European Council, and was re-elected to this position in 2017. He resigned as Polish Prime Minister to take the role, having been the longest-serving Prime Minister of the Third Polish Republic.

Chope
chairman of the Thatcherite Conservative Way Forward group and used to be a barrister in the Chambers of Peter Rawlinson.
During the expenses scandal of 2009, it emerged that Chope claimed £136,992 in parliamentary expenses in 2007-8. This included claiming £881 to repair a sofa.
On 11 October 2011, Chope questioned the time allotted to a debate on MPs' pensions. Because this debate came before a debate into the Hillsborough disaster inquiry, it was reported that Chope had threatened to delay the inquiry, leading to widespread criticism of Chope's actions.
Chope was criticised in January 2013 for referring to House of Commons dining room staff as "servants" in a speech.
Chope was appointed a Knight Bachelor in the 2018 New Year Honours for political and public service.

Post 29 March Chope will still be receiving our money as an MP.
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Thanks for that. Bit of confusion as to the use of the term re-elected in that post. Who elected him exactly?

Chope will receive money as long as he is elected to represent the people who elect him - and so he should because that is democracy.

To answer your question, there is not a chance in hell I'd vote for Chris Chope, but if my opinion is in the minority, as it always is round here, then my representative will be true blue. I'd love to reform the system but the imperfect electoral system in Westminster doesn't make the EU democratic, it isn't almost by definition.

Any danger of you answering the question? What are you advocating as an alternative to democracy?
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Thanks for that. Bit of confusion as to the use of the term re-elected in that post. Who elected him exactly?

Chope will receive money as long as he is elected to represent the people who elect him - and so he should because that is democracy.

To answer your question, there is not a chance in hell I'd vote for Chris Chope, but if my opinion is in the minority, as it always is round here, then my representative will be true blue. I'd love to reform the system but the imperfect electoral system in Westminster doesn't make the EU democratic, it isn't almost by definition.

Any danger of you answering the question? What are you advocating as an alternative to democracy?
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Didn't we have voting for MEPs? Farage didn't get there by magic. By definition, voting makes it democratic.
 
Democracy done badly in the uk should be challenged in the same way as democracy done badly in the eu, usa, uae etc.

Post 29 march the priority will be getting democracy working well in the uk, by the people for the people.
 
dutchcherry said:
"This is such an arrogantly English-centric take on things.". Have you been reading Fintan O'Toole again? :)
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Fintan O' Cun#ish O'cean Touring O' Out of His Depth O' F#cking Tool is so removed from Human Life he might as well be an Afficiando of a Red Adorned Wierdo Manchester Football club.....F##k Sh#t! And ..I cant even spell Weirrdo properly!
 
RobTrent said:
Didn't we have voting for MEPs? Farage didn't get there by magic. By definition, voting makes it democratic.
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We did but the EU Parliament doesn't have any real power other than making a few amendments to laws presented by undemocratically appointed bodies. Less than 35% turnout for European elections and over half of them vote for anti EU parties - the proof is in the pudding.
 
JIMNNINA said:
Democracy done badly in the uk should be challenged in the same way as democracy done badly in the eu, usa, uae etc.

Post 29 march the priority will be getting democracy working well in the uk, by the people for the people.
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Christ Jim' n' At the pinnacle of All knowledge.......I want you on a Satellte Control Platform working your Magic Post Brexit...so we can All Rest Easy!
 
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