Non - Brexit

Great to see the EU trying to smooth over the "oven ready deal.
 

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SlowDownDerek said:
It's not missing the point at all. The situation in NI was heads or tails before the GFA was agreed. They had to work with exactly this type of situation but with more violence on the streets.

If you weren't so blind to your own point of view you would see that the current proposals put forward by the EU Commissioner for Brexit are exactly the sort of solution I'm on about.

  • Allowing certain types of products to bypass EU import laws.
  • Northern Ireland only labelling.
  • Acknowledgment that the current system of checks on groupage haulage is unworkable and needs to change.
  • Widening the green corridor of goods that can go through without checks.
  • Acknowledgment that many goods exported to NI from GB pose little risk to the single market.
You can call me what you like - I want to move forward with solutions to the problems this has thrown up. You appear to want to re-hash old arguments for the sake of it and won't let the facts get in your way.
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You still don't get it...none of that is a solution. But let's see how it plays out. Sure it will all be fine...just like project fear was nonsense.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
You still don't get it...none of that is a solution. But let's see how it plays out. Sure it will all be fine...just like project fear was nonsense.
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Your solution is that the UK and Ireland shouldn't be allowed to leave the EU. Perhaps this isn't surprising from someone who never seemed to grasp the issues people had surrounding sovereignty and democracy.
 
beds cherry said:
That's the bit I never grasped. I'd rather live more comfortably than feel all 'independent'

And to stop immigration - that some leavers continually have a blank spot over. Its almost like some of them are embarrassed to admit it.
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More importantly, this 'independence' is a myth, daresay I say it, words of a stroppy teenager who does not understand that unless you want to be a hermit and leave on an island remote from everyone, you have to cooperate with others.

Thus independence was no more than a view that it was more important and possible to advance the interests of Britons in isolation rather than as Europeans, whilst many also thinking it's more important to advance the interests of the English over London.

I.e. Independence is relative.

And above all its academic now
 
DJ said:
If the EU was the land of milk and honey that some try to persuade it to be then there would never have been a referendum to begin with. Maybe just maybe, if the EU had accepted its not perfect and reformed then maybe it could have evolved into something that more people could have been onboard with and yet we’re now in a position that some people’s stances are so entrenched they look the other way to things. All of this, and that’s just today…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448263613626658823

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448191997508980736

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448179134027472896
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Any information on the fair and reasonable expenses and salaries of ukip meps?
 
It is a mess tbf...but if you spoke to random groups of folk in the streets of Paris, Milan, Munich or Amsterdam they will talk of a mess or two that could be laid at their equivalent of No 10..much of which would relate to the EU.
You can simplify..or complicate the outcomes of Brexit or any other revolutionary occurrences or edicts throughout history...but it all comes down to whether you like the Changes..or Not...or can Adapt to Changes...or Not...but if you have No Power other than your Vote being cast...then Adapt is what you have to attempt to Do.
 
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Druss_the_Legend said:
Ah yes, that Sovereignty we had before and after the vote.
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I'm not sure you're following my point. If we had sovereignty then by definition we had the right to leave the EU, same goes for Ireland. The GFA accommodated the sovereignty of both nations and therefore enshrined the right of both nations to leave the EU as did article 50 of The Treaty of the European Union.... so you trying to suggest that the GFA effectively bars the UK or Ireland from leaving the EU because there's 'no solution' is quite clearly nonsense. There was 'no solution' to the troubles before politicians started to negotiate towards the GFA - and the EU themselves have just proposed a load of ways in which EU law can be bent in order to find solutions. Kind of makes a mockery of your 'no solutions' argument doesn't it?
 
DJ said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1448330505607393288
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That quote is a good example of what is wrong. If Boris Johnson went on TV and said that pharmaceutical companies in Paris will be able to continue supplying customers in Marseille and will not need to relocate, he'd be looked at as stupid because of course Britain has no say in how Paris trades with Marseille. So why should any EU spokesman be able to say with a straight face that there is something good about this?

Priority number 1. The EU should have no more say over trade between England and Northern Ireland than it does between Bouremouth and Boscombe.

Priority number 2. With number 1 firmly in mind, they can then work out how to make the paperwork work out.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I'm not sure you're following my point. If we had sovereignty then by definition we had the right to leave the EU, same goes for Ireland. The GFA accommodated the sovereignty of both nations and therefore enshrined the right of both nations to leave the EU as did article 50 of The Treaty of the European Union.... so you trying to suggest that the GFA effectively bars the UK or Ireland from leaving the EU because there's 'no solution' is quite clearly nonsense. There was 'no solution' to the troubles before politicians started to negotiate towards the GFA - and the EU themselves have just proposed a load of ways in which EU law can be bent in order to find solutions. Kind of makes a mockery of your 'no solutions' argument doesn't it?
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So we already had sovereignty then?
 
RobTrent said:
So we already had sovereignty then?
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Well it doesn't appear that Northern Ireland has sovereignty does it and druss seems to be suggesting that the rest of the UK shouldn't have been allowed to leave the EU in a similar way for the same reason. Thankfully he's wrong.
 
dsr-burnley said:
That quote is a good example of what is wrong. If Boris Johnson went on TV and said that pharmaceutical companies in Paris will be able to continue supplying customers in Marseille and will not need to relocate, he'd be looked at as stupid because of course Britain has no say in how Paris trades with Marseille. So why should any EU spokesman be able to say with a straight face that there is something good about this?

Priority number 1. The EU should have no more say over trade between England and Northern Ireland than it does between Bouremouth and Boscombe.

Priority number 2. With number 1 firmly in mind, they can then work out how to make the paperwork work out.
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The uk signed up to a deal. The deal the uk signed was based on misleading ni politicians who backed the deal.

Therfore problem with ni politicians is the fault of the eu.

The logic of the ever more desparate boris apologists is beyond paroxy.
 
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JIMNNINA said:
The uk signed up to a deal. The deal the uk signed was based on misleading ni politicians who backed the deal.

Therfore problem with ni politicians is the fault of the eu.

The logic of the ever more desparate boris apologists is beyond paroxy.
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Both the EU and UK signed up to an unworkable deal so the fault lies with both parties.
 
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