Non - Champions League Final

TrevorMorganFanClub said:
Unfortunately, Liverpool fans had a history of thousands turning up without (real) tickets long before Hillsborough.

That reputation had been around for generations and isn't likely to go away any time soon.

Let's hope there's less effort to cover up the police failings than when 90-odd died. Lessons being learned would be better than just pointing the finger of blame.
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We'll probably find there were fans turning up late and without tickets as usual but we won't here from them so it will just be those innocent ones caught up in it all that will complain about their treatment and behaviour of the local
police.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle
 
Cloth Cap said:
Do you have proof regarding these assertions?
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If you want proof that police **************** ups at Hillsborough were covered up then I'd be surprised if it's possible to prove it for obvious reasons, but we all know it happened.

Actually, decades of lovable Mickey Mousers turning up en masse sans tiche is clearly just a rumour started by countless millions too!
 
TrevorMorganFanClub said:
If you want proof that police **************** ups at Hillsborough were covered up then I'd be surprised if it's possible to prove it for obvious reasons, but we all know it happened.

Actually, decades of lovable Mickey Mousers turning up en masse sans tiche is clearly just a rumour started by countless millions too!
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All I am asking for is something that might prove your assertion. The fact that ‘ countless millions’ believe the rumour doesn‘t make it a fact. You obviously have evidence from way before Hillsborourgh which I would be interested to look at before forming a conclusion regarding the events in Paris.
 
So you've never met any Liverpool fans then? They've been bragging about getting into big games for free since the sixties.

Actually, I suppose you might be deaf or find it hard to understand what they're saying so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
 
Cloth Cap said:
All I am asking for is something that might prove your assertion. The fact that ‘ countless millions’ believe the rumour doesn‘t make it a fact. You obviously have evidence from way before Hillsborourgh which I would be interested to look at before forming a conclusion regarding the events in Paris.
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I don't know about pre Hillsborough but Athens 2007 was pretty similar to this time by the sounds of it. Obviously you have to be sceptical depending on the source but it seems pretty clear that plenty show up and try to blag in. Not that this justify police brutality. Then again even the Liverpool sources seem to blame small allocations for the blaggers.


https://www.worldsoccer.com/news/liverpool-fans-branded-worst-in-europe-122549

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2007/06/the-misery-and-madness-of-athens/

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/jun/04/newsstory.sport18?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

https://tomkinstimes.com/2009/12/heysel-athens-the-truth/
 
Cloth Cap said:
All I am asking for is something that might prove your assertion. The fact that ‘ countless millions’ believe the rumour doesn‘t make it a fact. You obviously have evidence from way before Hillsborourgh which I would be interested to look at before forming a conclusion regarding the events in Paris.
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I'll give you first hand evidence Cloth Cap. I attended the 1986 FA Cup Final - given a ticket by a Liverpool season-ticket holding friend who couldn't make it. Old Wembley, Liverpool end. First all-Merseyside FA Cup Final. There were a large number of fans without tickets who rushed the turnstiles - with thousands behind them they had no choice other than to be let in - and several others were climbing up the walls and were pulled through openings higher up. There was well over 100,000 inside Wembley that day. It was the first and last time that I have ever thought I might die right here right now. The crush outside was unbearable but there was no escape - if you fell you would be trampled, and I remember being pushed up against a police horse that was trying to part the crowds. There was little air and it was very scary. Very easy to blame the police and stewards for not handling it well, but I can assure you it was certainly not them that started it! When Hillsborough happened, I'm ashamed (now) to say my immediate reaction was one of no surprise, because of the behaviour of Liverpool fans I had witnessed at Wembley. So, there you are. Cracking final, incidentally.
 
rednblackexile said:
I'll give you first hand evidence Cloth Cap. I attended the 1986 FA Cup Final - given a ticket by a Liverpool season-ticket holding friend who couldn't make it. Old Wembley, Liverpool end. First all-Merseyside FA Cup Final. There were a large number of fans without tickets who rushed the turnstiles - with thousands behind them they had no choice other than to be let in - and several others were climbing up the walls and were pulled through openings higher up. There was well over 100,000 inside Wembley that day. It was the first and last time that I have ever thought I might die right here right now. The crush outside was unbearable but there was no escape - if you fell you would be trampled, and I remember being pushed up against a police horse that was trying to part the crowds. There was little air and it was very scary. Very easy to blame the police and stewards for not handling it well, but I can assure you it was certainly not them that started it! When Hillsborough happened, I'm ashamed (now) to say my immediate reaction was one of no surprise, because of the behaviour of Liverpool fans I had witnessed at Wembley. So, there you are. Cracking final, incidentally.
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50 odd seconds into this...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1296805997563072512
 
Having lived in France and spent time in Paris the French riot police the CRS love to instigate trouble and are renowned for being very brutal
 
Ticketless fans when big clubs are involved is always a problem.. the initial cause of Hillsboro alongside the bad design of the ground... and ok the police were not brilliant ...but they took ALL the blame.in our Press!

1968 Boscombe v Liverpool. ..my scariest moment in a football ground ..Scousers came in late at the back of the South Stand, surged forward - I was rammed up against a crush barrier behind the goal...how bloody uncomfortable was that ! I managed to free myself and manouvre slowly to a less congested area near the pylon.
Remembering that and thinking of Hillsboro sends me into a cold sweat .
 
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Old Cherry said:
Ticketless fans when big clubs are involved is always s problem.. the initial cause of Hillsboro alongside the bad design of the ground... and ok the police were not brilliant ...but they took ALL the blame.in our Press!

1968 Boscombe v Liverpool. ..my scariest moment in a football ground ..Scousers came in late at the back of the South Stand, surged forward - I was rammed up against a crush barrier behind the goal...how bloody uncomfortable was that ! I managed to free myself and manouvre slowly to a less congested area near the pylon.
Remembering that and thinking of Hillsboro sends me into a cold sweat .
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I don't think I've heard anyone more clueless about Hillsborough than you. I'd suggest you read the Taylor Report. The police didn't get blamed at all in the press for many years and it appears there are many people like you who are happy to swallow the shite that the press feed you.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I don't think I've heard anyone more clueless about Hillsborough than you. I'd suggest you read the Taylor Report. The police didn't get blamed at all in the press for many years and it appears there are many people like you who are happy to swallow the shite that the press feed you.
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I'm too self- opinionated, socially aware and observant to let ANY newspaper influence me.
There was plenty of camera footage outside the ground for someone to not need the Taylor report.
There had been precarious moments at that ground before at previous semi - finals....and instances of Scouse fans kicking police horses !
 
Definition of 'Clueless ' : Someone who has a different angle or opinion than another on this Forum.
They lay in wait each day...
 
Old Cherry said:
I'm too self- opinionated, socially aware and observant to let ANY newspaper influence me.
There was plenty of camera footage outside the ground for someone to not need the Taylor report.
There had been precarious moments at that ground before at previous semi - finals....and instances of Scouse fans kicking police horses !
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You clearly do need to read more about it if you're interested in not talking complete b*llocks.

The disaster was caused by police failure and terrible ground design. They promoted Duckenfield into a role which he was not suited to and he failed to manage the crowds. The previous Chief Superintendent Mole had managed the same teams at the same venue the previous year without incident. There was camera footage then too and it showed the police managing the crowds better.
 
Old Cherry said:
If you read my post prope)rly . I actually did mention bad ground design. and that police weren't that brilliant... (meaning the police leaders not the troops).
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Yes and then you blamed the fans, just like the papers, who were in cahoots with the old bill and the government, told you to. The fans behaved exactly as you would expect them to. As spurs fans did in 1981 when there were problems at that end. As Coventry fans did in the 1987 quarter final when there were problems at that end. As Leeds fans did in the 1987 semi when there were problems at that end. The ground was a deathtrap and the authorities knew yet Duckenfield decided not to implement any of the safety procedures they had in place in the 1988 semi. It was not caused by fan behaviour.
 
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