Non: Historical Statues

wingsnwheels said:
HM The Queen is purely a figurehead, she has had no control over whatever 'atrocities' our various governments have been blamed for over the years. I expect she would make it known to the PM if she disapproved of what was going on, but couldn't change anything. Many years ago the monarch did have powers but not in recent history.
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You can't have it both ways. If she's a figurehead she is fair game for criticism for the things that happen under her name. If she wasn't a figured there wouldn't be statues of her and there wouldn't be an issue. It's not her as an individual that is being criticised it's what she represents.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
If she's a figurehead she is fair game for criticism for the things that happen under her name.
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But those things don't happen "under her name"

That's what our system is all about.

We took the power away from the throne, parliament has the final say and the buck stops with them.

late 1600's, William and Mary maybe? It's while since I was at school, but wasn't this when the royal family got neutered?
 
SlowDownDerek said:
You can't have it both ways. If she's a figurehead she is fair game for criticism for the things that happen under her name. If she wasn't a figured there wouldn't be statues of her and there wouldn't be an issue. It's not her as an individual that is being criticised it's what she represents.
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The monarch does have a constitutional role, but "carrying the can" isn't it.

Isn't Canada a democracy? Why didn't they have a referendum about whether to keep the statue, rather than just destroying it? To what extent should people be allowed to destroy other peoples' property in the name of protest?
 
Ken Baileys Ghost said:
But those things don't happen "under her name"

That's what our system is all about.

We took the power away from the throne, parliament has the final say and the buck stops with them.

late 1600's, William and Mary maybe? It's while since I was at school, but wasn't this when the royal family got neutered?
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What exactly is she if she's not the ultimate representative of the state? She's either their figurehead or her role is completely meaningless, which begs the question why have her as their head of state?
 
What is the point of statues anyway?…if you want to remember or worship anyone from history just google them, print a picture and put it on your wall !

Maybe we should just redact all history and forget it !?
 
dsr-burnley said:
The monarch does have a constitutional role, but "carrying the can" isn't it.

Isn't Canada a democracy? Why didn't they have a referendum about whether to keep the statue, rather than just destroying it? To what extent should people be allowed to destroy other peoples' property in the name of protest?
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Is this you?E81B4CC3-7A84-4DD0-8678-8BBEFA63897E.jpeg
 
So....how is this ' Imperialism' manifesting itself right now, in this moment.

Is ERma Jesty stood on Plymouth Hoe ordering destroyers to attack the Cherbourg fishing fleet or is she commissioning a frigateful of Knights to infiltrate Shanghai Harbour Offices?

We didn't even stay in Brussels to fight our corner for Christ Sake!
Our Armed Services are at their smallest strength for Centuries

She isnt Queen of anything on the Asian Continent or South America or Africa...or Europe ...apart from Gibraltar..Ha!

Australia, NZ are land extremities that are of a highly passive nature in the general run of things!
Canada bothers only itself and ships out timber!

Hardly active and aggressive Imperialism showing up anywhere...unless were talking of Andrew lugging his trouser - cannon around the World and pointing it at unsuspecting beavers!
 
SlowDownDerek said:
What exactly is she if she's not the ultimate representative of the state? She's either their figurehead or her role is completely meaningless, which begs the question why have her as their head of state?
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A convenient scapegoat it seems...
 
dsr-burnley said:
Isn't Canada a democracy? Why didn't they have a referendum about whether to keep the statue, rather than just destroying it? To what extent should people be allowed to destroy other peoples' property in the name of protest?
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Boy, plucky little Canada is definitely getting lots of attention on here.

We have a referendum every 4-5 years (or less, if a minority government falls). It's called an election. And once you have picked your poison, you are stuck with the feckers until the next round.

I would be all for referenda on many matters, but they rarely called except for constitutional issues - i.e. Conscription in 1942, Quebec in 1980 and 1995, NWT for boundary division in 1982 and 1992, and the Charlottetown Accord in 1992.

What I would really be for is parliamentary votes that allow voting by conscience instead of along party lines. They we would truly see what our elected officials are made of. But "ain't gonna happen".

I think I have made it clear that I have a lot of time for our Aboriginal people. I have less time for the posers and bandwagon jumpers who use any new cause to "protest", which is mostly just to disturb the Sh*t. These issues with our First Nations have been around for decades .... where have these protesters been all along?
 
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Toronto John said:
How about street names? Or towns, counties, municipalities?
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Bad form to bump your own post, but I couldn't get either @Druss_the_Legend or @RobTrent to bite.

Here are three articles that address some madness emanating from Toronto City Council. A price tag of $5-6 million, likely double or triple that as government financial mismanagement will set in. Plus hundreds of businesses, just coming out of the pandemic lockdowns by their fingernails, having to incur damaging costs.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7986027/toronto-rename-dundas-street-petition-racism/
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/national-post-latest-edition/20210703/281509344171271
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53041048
 
@Toronto John, as a student of WW2 history I am more than impressed with the efforts of the Canadian people during that conflict. There was a brotherhood that crossed the Atlantic and the Canadian forces paid a heavy price for their involvement. People like me will never forget that. It's a shame that the attitudes of people have changed so much of late and want to destroy what has already happened and can't be changed.
 
wingsnwheels said:
@Toronto John, as a student of WW2 history I am more than impressed with the efforts of the Canadian people during that conflict. There was a brotherhood that crossed the Atlantic and the Canadian forces paid a heavy price for their involvement. People like me will never forget that. It's a shame that the attitudes of people have changed so much of late and want to destroy what has already happened and can't be changed.
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There's a small war memorial and Canadian flag just at the end of my road, which commemorates the lives of the thousands of young Canadian men which were lost in the disastrous Dieppe Raid of 1942. It is argued that theirs was a necessary sacrifice, without which D Day would have been far more costly.

Let us honour their memory.

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Toronto John said:
Bad form to bump your own post, but I couldn't get either @Druss_the_Legend or @RobTrent to bite.

Here are three articles that address some madness emanating from Toronto City Council. A price tag of $5-6 million, likely double or triple that as government financial mismanagement will set in. Plus hundreds of businesses, just coming out of the pandemic lockdowns by their fingernails, having to incur damaging costs.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7986027/toronto-rename-dundas-street-petition-racism/
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/national-post-latest-edition/20210703/281509344171271
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53041048
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Not sure @s work properly on here. Ive no indication you mentioned me! Sorry. Which reminds me, anyone set up a AFCB Discord?

Anyway back to the point....places being named after someone can be and are, easily changed. I gave my example of Saddam Hussain. Just change the street or building name. I cant see many people having issues with that.

We change our currency all the time. I am assuming, just like all the previous incumbents of British currency, that when they replace Churchill from the £5 note there will not be a massive uproar?

I understand the issue with statues from an art point of view...but surely they will always draw attention both good and bad? I have mentioned on previous threads on this subject, just wait until the Stone Mountain conversation comes to a head. I am not sure anyone could possibly fail to understand the issues with the place.
 
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