Non - Pandemic

JIMNNINA said:
Lessons from history learned.....

Roman entertainment is a byword for the decadence of the late empire, leading to its downfall when it spent more time on amusement than reforming the military or rooting out corruption. The Emperors encouraged people to go to see the fights as it stopped them from being bored and criticising their ruler.

People across the UK have taken part in a second "Clap for Carers" tribute, saluting NHS staff and other key workers dealing with the coronavirus pandemic.
Delivery drivers, supermarket staff, care workers and bin collectors were among those honoured by the nation.
Households banged pots and pans, while others played the bagpipes to show their support.
The event is now expected to happen every Thursday at 20:00 BST.
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Wtf are you talking about and why did you post this in response to my completely unrelated post?
 
red_house said:
Thats a first for you linking the Mail ...If you read it

Machines used to keep patients breathing are being restricted on medical grounds, not because of a lack of capacity, Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust told the Daily Telegraph.
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I've probably linked mail stories hundreds of times. Read on anyway. They say that usually these people would be put on a ventilator but usual practice is out of the window. They make a decision on whether they think it's worth it - devising their fate. If it wasn't worth it why would the put these people on ventilators in normal times?
 
JIMNNINA said:
Lessons from history learned.....

Roman entertainment is a byword for the decadence of the late empire, leading to its downfall when it spent more time on amusement than reforming the military or rooting out corruption. The Emperors encouraged people to go to see the fights as it stopped them from being bored and criticising their ruler.

People across the UK have taken part in a second "Clap for Carers" tribute, saluting NHS staff and other key workers dealing with the coronavirus pandemic.
Delivery drivers, supermarket staff, care workers and bin collectors were among those honoured by the nation.
Households banged pots and pans, while others played the bagpipes to show their support.
The event is now expected to happen every Thursday at 20:00 BST.
Click to expand...
Utterly random interjection with a hit of history in this case, love it. Good to see you haven't changed in this strange new world me mucker.
 
RobTrent said:
Jam tomorrow. The numerous repeated claims to be rolling out & ramping up.
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Did you watch question time? The bloke seemed genuinely gutted that the first three versions of tests that they purchased (if they worked) didn’t pass the tests.

The “game changer” antibody tests really appear to be the key to assembling some form of normality for all of this in time.

Perhaps Boris should have kept it under his hat before promising it so soon. A bit like his 12 weeks and it’ll all be over speech which was completely out of context with his other addresses.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I've probably linked mail stories hundreds of times. Read on anyway. They say that usually these people would be put on a ventilator but usual practice is out of the window. They make a decision on whether they think it's worth it - devising their fate. If it wasn't worth it why would the put these people on ventilators in normal times?
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You recently said the Daily Mail was laughable...yet are now relying on them to twist a few things and present it as evidence.
 
RobTrent said:
Jam tomorrow. The numerous repeated claims to be rolling out & ramping up.
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I see.

Well a 13.4 billion write off strikes me as a fairly large batch of jam today (although I admit quite how government-NHS borrowing works I've no idea). But this whole situation is by definition reactive and new. Hindsight later will tell us who around the world took the best measures and timed them best.

I'd say what's been announced and enforced already in a short space of time is pretty extraordinary, as I think we agree? A government couldn't put these sorts of measures in place over the course of years in normal times, and it's been done in days.

I'd say we have some catching up to do with PPE, all sorts of sorry stories online to see on that topic.

I agree with the gov line regards caution over testing, until we have proven reliable tests, which it appears we might now. They've set a stall out on that today and it's there to be judged on.
 
red_house said:
You recently said the Daily Mail was laughable...yet are now relying on them to twist a few things and present it as evidence.
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I'm not particular trying to prove a point, I don't necessarily agree with Rob that the government have done f*ck all as I've argued.

The mail is laughable in many of the things they write and people will have to make their minds up but it appears to be a corroborated fact that people who would previously have been provided with ventilators are not being provided with them now.
 
northstandmark said:
I see.

Well a 13.4 billion write off strikes me as a fairly large batch of jam today (although I admit quite how government-NHS borrowing works I've no idea). But this whole situation is by definition reactive and new. Hindsight later will tell us who around the world took the best measures and timed them best.

I'd say what's been announced and enforced already in a short space of time is pretty extraordinary, as I think we agree? A government couldn't put these sorts of measures in place over the course of years in normal times, and it's been done in days.

I'd say we have some catching up to do with PPE, all sorts of sorry stories online to see on that topic.

I agree with the gov line regards caution over testing, until we have proven reliable tests, which it appears we might now. They've set a stall out on that today and it's there to be judged on.
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How come Germany has no shortage of reliable tests ? Or South Korea?
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I'm not particular trying to prove a point, I don't necessarily agree with Rob that the government have done f*ck all as I've argued.

The mail is laughable in many of the things they write and people will have to make their minds up but it appears to be a corroborated fact that people who would previously have been provided with ventilators are not being provided with them now.
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Like you I'm not a medical professional. Without doubt if someone can survive this virus, they will get a ventilator (this might change in 3 days who knows) . Even if it means transferring them to a hospital down the road or a chopper to PGH.
My assumption is that many end of life patients (we still have thousands dying a month) who were ordinarily being ventilated for whatever reason and were basically gonners might not get the extra day, 2 hours or whatever it takes to keep them going.

This BBC article sums it up, they seem the only source capable of rational thought that doesn't feed into money grabbing headlines. There will indeed be hard choices to make, no matter what and is there a country out there not making these choices now or preparing for them ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52137001
 
davidwhitehead said:
How come Germany has no shortage of reliable tests ? Or South Korea?
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A)Do we know the reliability for a fact? (honest question). If they've done tests that say one thing, and we do tests that say another, should we just ignore our own results?

B)Germany's in-house pharmaceutical industry has by all accounts done well, as has their decentralised health system. I don't doubt we could learn a thing or two from the way their health system is setup.
 
red_house said:
Like you I'm not a medical professional. Without doubt if someone can survive this virus, they will get a ventilator (this might change in 3 days who knows) . Even if it means transferring them to a hospital down the road or a chopper to PGH.
My assumption is that many end of life patients (we still have thousands dying a month) who were ordinarily being ventilated for whatever reason and were basically gonners might not get the extra day, 2 hours or whatever it takes to keep them going.

This BBC article sums it up, they seem the only source capable of rational thought that doesn't feed into money grabbing headlines. There will indeed be hard choices to make, no matter what and is there a country out there not making these choices now or preparing for them ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52137001
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Yep, I've no real idea either but it appears from the source in the first article that the choices referred to in the BBC article are being made already. I don't think that QUOTE matches up with "without doubt if someone can survive this virus, they will get a ventilator". Sounds like they are already playing a percentage game in some locations. We know from Italy and Spain that this is almost certainly going to become more pronounced too.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Yep, I've no real idea either but it appears from the source in the first article that the choices referred to in the BBC article are being made already. I don't think that QUOTE matches up with "without doubt if someone can survive this virus, they will get a ventilator". Sounds like they are already playing a percentage game in some locations. We know from Italy and Spain that this is almost certainly going to become more pronounced too.
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It'll happen without doubt and the Mail will be the first to report the person who couldn't get a ventilator....just like every other country dealing with similar numbers. When there are people needlessly dying lets all go for it but is that really happening right now (which was the whole point of my interjection on this thread)
 
red_house said:
It'll happen without doubt and the Mail will be the first to report the person who couldn't get a ventilator....just like every other country dealing with similar numbers. When there are people needlessly dying lets all go for it but is that really happening right now (which was the whole point of my interjection on this thread)
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Fair enough. I hope that we are able to minimise the instances of this happening and that any docs involved aren't too badly affected by the decisions they will be forced into.
 
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