Non - Pandemic

DJ said:
One of the issues when it comes to masks was that very early on it became a political thing, when the UK was zigging and everyone else was zagging the Tories often dug their heels in.

There was a misunderstanding on how the virus was transmitted. To say the science didn’t change is just plain wrong it changed multiple times from no human to human transmission, to only transmission by people who coughed or sneezed to the realisation that it doesn’t matter really how long the virus will survive on food packaging, cardboard, surfaces etc to its an airbourne virus that can be transmitted asymptomatically and that good ventilation was more important than scrubbing everything to death or putting library books in isolation for three days...

It was from this point on that mask wearing was common sense practice, but again couldn’t push them due to the political issues surrounding the global lack of PPE.

So all of that builds a hesitancy to them, just like throw a few questions about regarding the Oxford vaccine in the EU and now it’s seen as an inferior unsafe vaccine.
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As I have said before, I respect your views as you are a clever bloke. I just don't agree with some of what you say, especially with the masks.
 
TCherry said:
Autumn starting 22nd September and ending sometime in December. So you'd liked us to all have been in Tier 1 during all that time? Surely not?

Just looked it up, the 2nd national lockdown started on the 5th November, recognised by many people as too late as per the 1st lockdown in March 2020.

When they have a public inquiry after this has literally died down, I'm sure it will be proven that those delays will have cost 10's of thousands of lives.

Whilst I realise this is all about the economy vs peoples lives, I just wish that the Covid deniers (I'm not saying you are one by the way) could just have seen what actually went on in a Covid ward during the peaks of the pandemic.

Feel really sorry for the staff (and they wear all the PPE gear during their working day - now that is stressful! )

I agree the Govt. hasn't done very well but very few have. Certainly not well communicated. To be fair, the vaccine implementation has gone very well.
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Tier one could have been used all along, this would have made sure the vulnerable were protected and shielded, while allowing healthy people to carry on at near normal [ with a few restrictions ]. For whole regions to lockdown hard when levels were always very low was a bit strange and caused lots of damage that could have been avoided.

There isn't any available evidence to say that if we closed down earlier at the start, it would have made much difference. Germany only closed down two days before us and people lauded their reactions to it. Any enquiry that isn't a whitewash will also likely show how much damage to everything else the lockdowns caused and still do. I, like many others, will always believe there should have been a better balance between covid and everything else - we all know that, for example, poverty kills people in the long run too.

While hospital staff wearing PPE all day isn't nice at all.....it is a job they know will likely need such measures at certain times too. I feel more sorry for those in hospitality [ when allowed to actually work ], shops etc who have been forced into masks when they would have never expected that to happen. I see many pubs are struggling to get staff now, no wonder when they have all this to contend with. [ Also remember that before covid, hospital staff on the wards never wore masks, only in surgery ].

And you are right, I have never been one to deny this is a horrible illness at its worst. I just feel the measures brought in were far out of proportion to the the actual risk. I do understand that during the first lockdown but since then, I think it should have been done very differently. I certainly can't see any justification for restrictions to continue any longer.
 
davygravy said:
Tier one could have been used all along, this would have made sure the vulnerable were protected and shielded, while allowing healthy people to carry on at near normal [ with a few restrictions ]. For whole regions to lockdown hard when levels were always very low was a bit strange and caused lots of damage that could have been avoided.

There isn't any available evidence to say that if we closed down earlier at the start, it would have made much difference. Germany only closed down two days before us and people lauded their reactions to it. Any enquiry that isn't a whitewash will also likely show how much damage to everything else the lockdowns caused and still do. I, like many others, will always believe there should have been a better balance between covid and everything else - we all know that, for example, poverty kills people in the long run too.
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The vulnerable were shielded and it didn't work.

To say there's no available evidence that earlier lockdowns would have made a difference is completely untrue. Just look at the case numbers (and subsequent deaths) falling two weeks after each lockdown, move the peak back a week or two and you've got clearly unrefutable evidence that deaths would be tens if thousands lower.

Germany proves nothing about our lockdown.
 
RobTrent said:
So basically you're a conspiracy theorist?

Can you explain why anyone would wilfully cause so much damage to the economy, or why death tolls have been pretty dreadful all over the world? What benefit has anyone gained from this?
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davygravy said:
No Rob, I am not one. I have fought the urge to agree with them all along. And as to your question, that is the same question that so far stopped me agreeing with them. I always thought that whoever is in Govt won't be in Govt forever and would soon enough have to have the same rules as the rest of us. Their wider families are already under the same rules.

Having said that.....some of what has gone on has made me ponder for sure. The reactions and lockdowns to the virus have really been way out of proportion to the reality of the risk to us all. That's for sure. I did think since the first lockdown, maybe the anger from the MSM towards the Govt, later made them far too cautious.

I have seen posts on social media from Doctors and medical professionals who have been against pretty much everything that has gone on. One earlier had resigned from his job as he feels a lot of lies have been shared by the Govt, especially with vaccines. Other sceptics [ not deniers but sceptics ] even with high qualifications, have been shut down.

Ofcom basically telling the MSM to only share Govt information and no balance from alternative viewpoints. Why do that?

Govt ministers lying throughout...... promises of no vaccine passports when they were already in meetings to look at them. Hancock promising to 'cry freedom' as soon as the vulnerable were vaccinated and then moving goalposts. Masks....my pet hate....!!.....being told they were not needed by pretty much every scientist, who then changed their minds despite the science not changing whatsoever...... was it just a way of seeing how much control the public would accept???

Data not dates was another fib. If that is what they promised, we would be back to normal already.

I could go on and on with this kind of thing......

So again, no, I am not a conspiracy theorist......but some of the things I read up about......and not by mad people!....it does make me wonder what is really happening here. Will they ever 'allow' us all our freedoms back??
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If the resignation doctor is the one I think you are talking about, he is absolutely mad as a box of frogs
 
I completely understand the arguments against lockdown but let's not forget an awful lot of people missed ICU care that may have saved them, as the beds ran out. Remember hospitals running out of oxygen, or at least unable to pipe it fast enough?
And an awful lot of health care professionals are dead or disabled by virtue of doing their job, which is why a complete nutter ( this is the correct medical terminology) resigning their job doesn't cut a lot of ice with me
 
billythekid said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1401876505219768323
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I am sure people have every sympathy with anyone affected by this virus Billy. But at the same time, covid is just one very small aspect of the total healthcare of the nation. 1% of deaths now remember, that's all. Sad for those people but perspective has always been needed. This 'long covid' issue has also been raised but people get long term side effects from all kinds of illnesses. The whole country can't have restrictions forever just for this low amount of affected people.
 
I note the education recovery statement gets almost zero coverage on the media.

I almost completely missed the farce of the Tories getting in someone to put together a plan, only for them to bin it off and for him to quit because he wasn’t being listened to.

Children have been failed again and again during this, but far more interest in pints, pork pies and holidays.
 
DJ said:
I note the education recovery statement gets almost zero coverage on the media.

I almost completely missed the farce of the Tories getting in someone to put together a plan, only for them to bin it off and for him to quit because he wasn’t being listened to.

Children have been failed again and again during this, but far more interest in pints, pork pies and holidays.
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Don’t forget the scotch eggs. :grinning:

Remember seeing it discussed on the papers review the other day and it’s also here.


School catch-up tsar resigns over lack of funding

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57335558


The government has been accused of waiting until half-term to “sneak out” the announcement of its Education Recovery Plan to avoid criticism about a significant lack of funding and its “lack of ambition”.

However, if that was the plan, it failed miserably as a day of heavy and scathing criticism ended with the resignation of the Education Recovery Commissioner Sir Kevan Collins.

https://www.headteacher-update.com/...vid-pandemic-lost-learning-tutoring-1/237722/
 
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DJ said:
I note the education recovery statement gets almost zero coverage on the media.

I almost completely missed the farce of the Tories getting in someone to put together a plan, only for them to bin it off and for him to quit because he wasn’t being listened to.

Children have been failed again and again during this, but far more interest in pints, pork pies and holidays.
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It was covered a fair bit last week when he resigned.
 
There had to be some cohesion between Government, the Scientists and the Public..along the way....a large application of discipline within the guidelines.. there has been tbf,, by just about enough of that from all ( or most) concerned..otherwise many more of us would be beneath the Soil!
But a crazy amount of hard work in the NHS has been the crucial factor from the start and latterly with the Control and Administering of the Vaccine... .facilitated by thousands of volunteer workers helping out...many if them out of retirement...Saints !

The News headlines now peppered by reports of famous Tennis Players ' pulling out'....with Mental Health issues.. All that Money and Fame...what a Shame !
As long as the Celebs are not Incapacitated by the Virus eh ?
In past eras. It was just mere ' shell shock' from battles ..or the odd 'nervous breakdown'.( what happened to them ?)

Come Inboard and a Glass of Water .
 
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