Sack him now before it’s too late

[afcb_rednblack]

at the end of last season I thought with the squad we had that mid table would be a good bet for us to finish, then we appoint JT and lose a teams worth of players so I still think mid table would be a good season, we haven't been a team for a couple of years, don't forget this is a team that eddie couldn't gel together but now people expect JT to have done something eddie couldn't in 6 months, am I happy with the league position? yes, am I happy with the last few games? of course not, we need to completely change our squad get rid of the prima Donna's and get hungry players in who will throw everything into the game each week, just like Eddie's championship team

I don't disagree but, and it's a big but for me, the owner made a statement prior to the start of this season by which he has set expectations, so either there can be no excuses or the owner publicly revises his expectations.

 

[Brian Hutchings]

I feel your pain Brian.... but its JT's job to organise the things you want - the clue is in his job title - manager

and that was a quick walk?!

Oh yeah point taken...JT has still to get things sorted...he has to learn to overcome any crisis that crops up....but it's still a bit early to write him off...I'd say its for Max to review the scene around late February or early March and act accordingly.

Postponed the walk until later...I've pulled a shoulder muscle lifting some boxes of books..very sore.
Bit of a pain really...now the missus wants to go with me and she walks faster..its about 2 miles and back, usually every day, sometimes together....if she drags herself away from the TV!

 

[Loyal2Bournemouth]

Anyone thinking mid-table this season was ever acceptable with the squad we have is blinkered. It's a very weak division this year with sides not being able to invest due to Covid. We will literally never have a better chance to bounce back.

Every season we fail to get back it will become tougher and tougher - the players we have with Premier League experience or class will leave and we'll be competing with more and more sides benefiting from parachute payments.

It was never going to be 'easy' to go up this season of course, but this may well be the weakest field we'll ever face at this level.

 

[paul49]

Anyone thinking mid-table this season was ever acceptable with the squad we have is blinkered. It's a very weak division this year with sides not being able to invest due to Covid. We will literally never have a better chance to bounce back.

Every season we fail to get back it will become tougher and tougher - the players we have with Premier League experience or class will leave and we'll be competing with more and more sides benefiting from parachute payments.

It was never going to be 'easy' to go up this season of course, but this may well be the weakest field we'll ever face at this level.

Do those parachute payments fly in and land on a quarterly basis or do we get them at the end of the season?

 

[MB1980]

This thread warrants a Rant !

We gets the likes of JCLs, PL Suckers, Elitists, Brand Freaks, Wanababee Accountants and such....
week after week laying into JT, an aspiring manager trying to get something going...
...laying into Gosling, a box to box grafter...and rubbishing Simpson and so on....doubting Surridge...farming out Oforbh. ..other waffling crap...gibbering away about bloody formations, ' assist ratios' , .wing backs , dingbats and pussy players in stringback black gloves and thermal shin pads..and all manner of inconsequential, pseudo-twee crap.
Christ it don't half wind I up!
and all the gushing and crying over gone Ake and craving Demerai Grays and other wastes of f√cking space.
And there's more..oh there is too ..if only there was enough time this century to bang it through the keys!

Some of these 'fair- weather' players at DC are on huge amounts of money...
.. they need to get the f√ck out there..on the pitch and earn the tw@tting Money ...before we blame JT.
The genuine, sanguine, dedicated old Cherry fans....will give everyone that's at DC a chance to get All their beans on the toast and their onions peeled or at least show an effort in doing so.

well I'm glad you admit people on here wind you up now!

 

[MB1980]

Anyone thinking mid-table this season was ever acceptable with the squad we have is blinkered. It's a very weak division this year with sides not being able to invest due to Covid. We will literally never have a better chance to bounce back.

Every season we fail to get back it will become tougher and tougher - the players we have with Premier League experience or class will leave and we'll be competing with more and more sides benefiting from parachute payments.

It was never going to be 'easy' to go up this season of course, but this may well be the weakest field we'll ever face at this level.

exactly, the give him a year/chance brigade don't see this, but I think a fair few on here do.

I think its a pivotal season that will define the medium/long term future of the club.

not going up this year could be disastrous imo.

we gambled on an unproven manager, time to cut our losses before it's too late. maybe he'll surprise us and become a great manager one day, but I honestly cannot see it and now's not the time for us to be taking the risk as to whether he has it or not.

 

[Notmarcjackson]

The challenge here is who we get in place of JT.

Be very aware that Pulis and Pearson are both looking for jobs!

 

[Johnny Comelately]

The challenge here is who we get in place of JT.

Be very aware that Pulis and Pearson are both looking for jobs!

I'm happy to stick with JT for a few more games but what's wrong with Pearson? More than a few of the players look like they could do with a kick up the a#se.

 

[SlowDownDerek]

exactly, the give him a year/chance brigade don't see this, but I think a fair few on here do.

I think its a pivotal season that will define the medium/long term future of the club.

not going up this year could be disastrous imo.

we gambled on an unproven manager, time to cut our losses before it's too late. maybe he'll surprise us and become a great manager one day, but I honestly cannot see it and now's not the time for us to be taking the risk as to whether he has it or not.

You talk as if sacking him is not also a gamble.

 

[MB1980]

You talk as if sacking him is not also a gamble.

it certainly is, there are of course no guarantees but appointing someone with a track record carries less risk than pinning our hopes on jt, who has done little over the course of the season to instill confidence he's capable of taking this talented team up.

 

[GaryRB]

Trying to remember as a club, when we may have been calling for the manager's head whilst sat 5th in mid January
We were being entertained not too long ago, but currently going through a crap spell. It happens
Change of manager rarely helps in this scenario, there has been a few clubs who've tried it and gone down the table, not up.
Let's not act privileged and billy big bollox, there's a reason we were relegated. The squad are good for this Div, but we cannot expect to walk it
I stick

 

[canadiancherry]

Seems that when he was appointed several (wise) people here said that the real test will be, what does he do after we've lost 4 in a row?
We've only lost 2 in a row!
That Derby performance was akin to that wretched Palace game after lockdown, but everybody is going to have slumps where you lose a few in a row.
Norwich will eventually too.

 

[bruce red]

If most people remember January is always a poor month.
and February brings record wins We will see.

 

[wingsnwheels]

What about the fact that there are no crowds, so no atmosphere and also the worry of covid. We are all struggling so why not accept that players probably are too. Results don't always go our way, they never have or will. Accept that we are on a blip and then start moaning if we don't get over it.

 

[nd9cherry]

15 points from our last 12 league games since 2nd December...maybe Huddersfield with fans back was our players cup final...I am seriously worried...we didnt react soon enough to a blip last season and were relegated with a side too good according to many to go down...now we are deemed by many as having a squad too good for this division...BUT in both seasons we have sadly lacked commitment/passion/organisation and ideas once we had made a few hundred passes...
Lets be honest we all have a sharp intake of breath every time the opposition has the chance to cross/take a corner/ have a free kick...In the Championship winning season it didnt matter cause we would have outscored the opposition...
All said IMHO

 

[Cherry Warrior]

Nothing wrong with not playing like the title winning side, we have different players. But lets at least play to our strengths. We should have the best midfield in this league but we play 5 at the back reducing our midfield numbers and stifling the are on the pitch we should dominate.

Even worse than sticking with 5 at the back that does not work is playing a right footer on the left to try to stick with it when you don't have the personnel.

Agree with a lot of this. For me 5 at the back can work with rapid out and out wing backs but we don't have them. Stacey is good going forward and can do it but is not an out and out wingback. Same with Smith who actually likes to cut in even on the right (which can be effective). Rico has no pace whatsoever and his best position is on the left of a 3. Kelly actually does have pace but prefers to be static - actually think he could be a great player given right guidance but I admit has generally been crap this season. Zemura from limited views I actually think may be a natural wingback so ironic he isn't getting a look in.
The point is though we are potentially strong in midfield especially if you match up so our 2 don't constantly get out manned by 3. I challenge anyone to be at their best when they are under so much pressure just to keep the ball. Lewis in most games has shown great ability in tight situations for example to get past players and play good short or long passes. Imagine if he wasn't quite so pressured game in game out by having 2 partners in the middle alongside him. All of a sudden our midfield is looking forward not back and strikers are moving proactively knowing a pass is coming.
The big problem for players like Brooks and danjuma is cos of the system they are always receiving the ball tight to the touchline with back to goal, in fact normally moving towards our goal, and a defender up their backside and no where to go except backwards. Fact Brooks is not really a winger in its true sense and really needs a free role exacerbated the problem. Imagine we are playing higher up the pitch and our wide men are receiving passes forward moving towards goal (which has happened a few times late on when we bring Roro on to chase a goal) how the momentum changed and suddenly forwards and midfield can make runs and flood the box.
Sounds simple and of course there are complications but in general terms football is a simple game.

 

[Cherry Warrior]

Agree with a lot of this. For me 5 at the back can work with rapid out and out wing backs but we don't have them. Stacey is good going forward and can do it but is not an out and out wingback. Same with Smith who actually likes to cut in even on the right (which can be effective). Rico has no pace whatsoever and his best position is on the left of a 3. Kelly actually does have pace but prefers to be static - actually think he could be a great player given right guidance but I admit has generally been crap this season. Zemura from limited views I actually think may be a natural wingback so ironic he isn't getting a look in.
The point is though we are potentially strong in midfield especially if you match up so our 2 don't constantly get out manned by 3. I challenge anyone to be at their best when they are under so much pressure just to keep the ball. Lewis in most games has shown great ability in tight situations for example to get past players and play good short or long passes. Imagine if he wasn't quite so pressured game in game out by having 2 partners in the middle alongside him. All of a sudden our midfield is looking forward not back and strikers are moving proactively knowing a pass is coming.
The big problem for players like Brooks and danjuma is cos of the system they are always receiving the ball tight to the touchline with back to goal, in fact normally moving towards our goal, and a defender up their backside and no where to go except backwards. Fact Brooks is not really a winger in its true sense and really needs a free role exacerbated the problem. Imagine we are playing higher up the pitch and our wide men are receiving passes forward moving towards goal (which has happened a few times late on when we bring Roro on to chase a goal) how the momentum changed and suddenly forwards and midfield can make runs and flood the box.
Sounds simple and of course there are complications but in general terms football is a simple game.

Whoops sorry got carried away. That was a bit long!

 

[ChampagneCherry]

Time for the controversial

I think JT is doing a not great but good job. He shows a willingness to learn and lack of stubbornness to make changes.

In some ways he needs a run of luck to even out the misfortune of some decisions that cost of 4-6 points which lead to the diatribe I have just wadded through.

The areas I would improve are
- we need to improve our attitude to refs and mental response to bad decisions. You can see how moments distract us and we haven't crucially accepted the level in this division.
- we need a new captain. Rather than applaud Steve Cook, I don't see him managing games from within. It might please people to see him striding forward, but it's to no effect. A leader doesn't take it upon himself to do the things they can't do. They do the things they should do better and help their team. He played too many straight long balls effectively to their keeper or out. If he focuses on improving that, letting Kelly know where he is missing passes or encouraging him forward, seeing that the opportunities to feed Stacey are being wasted, or putting an arm around Brooks and suggest he just keeps it simple for a while etc. then he can influence a better result.
- Brooks needs to stop trying so hard. He is playing with pressure on his own shoulders, like he needs to do something magical every time. 2 goals requires just 2 extraordinary pieces of magic, the rest of the time he needs to go back to basics.
- JT needs to back King for the remainder of the season and give him a good run of games. Against consensus, I would have given him a lucrative new contract extension, get out clauses, and ask him to have fun for a year while this pandemic is on. I would have actually sold Brooks 4 months ago and would do now.

Otherwise, I can see the positives. Reading will be a tough game but beyond that we can regain ground during Feb. Still plenty of points available, and I have not become like one of PL top 6 supporters who believes we have divine right.

Remember where we came from, and appreciate what we have.

 

[Deleted member 754]

Time for the controversial

I think JT is doing a not great but good job. He shows a willingness to learn and lack of stubbornness to make changes.

In some ways he needs a run of luck to even out the misfortune of some decisions that cost of 4-6 points which lead to the diatribe I have just wadded through.

The areas I would improve are
- we need to improve our attitude to refs and mental response to bad decisions. You can see how moments distract us and we haven't crucially accepted the level in this division.
- we need a new captain. Rather than applaud Steve Cook, I don't see him managing games from within. It might please people to see him striding forward, but it's to no effect. A leader doesn't take it upon himself to do the things they can't do. They do the things they should do better and help their team. He played too many straight long balls effectively to their keeper or out. If he focuses on improving that, letting Kelly know where he is missing passes or encouraging him forward, seeing that the opportunities to feed Stacey are being wasted, or putting an arm around Brooks and suggest he just keeps it simple for a while etc. then he can influence a better result.
- Brooks needs to stop trying so hard. He is playing with pressure on his own shoulders, like he needs to do something magical every time. 2 goals requires just 2 extraordinary pieces of magic, the rest of the time he needs to go back to basics.
- JT needs to back King for the remainder of the season and give him a good run of games. Against consensus, I would have given him a lucrative new contract extension, get out clauses, and ask him to have fun for a year while this pandemic is on. I would have actually sold Brooks 4 months ago and would do now.

Otherwise, I can see the positives. Reading will be a tough game but beyond that we can regain ground during Feb. Still plenty of points available, and I have not become like one of PL top 6 supporters who believes we have divine right.

Remember where we came from, and appreciate what we have.

I agree with some of your points, but why is the other "diatribe" you "waded thru" any less meaningful than your opinion?!

 

[Matt Stevenson]

I agree with some of your points, but why is the other "diatribe" you "waded thru" any less meaningful than your opinion?!

Being a pedant, the Cambridge Dictionary defines a diatribe as 'an angry speech or piece of writing that severely criticizes something or someone '. I wouldn't call Champagne Cherry's post as angry, or severely critical. They seem well-written.

There are valid arguments on both sides, but some of the 'Tindall out' posts do come across as diatribes, although this doesn't mean that they aren't making fair criticisms underneath the anger.

We're all very disappointed in recent form, but hopefully the atmosphere doesn't descend into 'dug-in' positions.

Here's hoping for a change in luck, the rub of the green, and a run of three points a game!