Have we improved?

billythekid said:
I know I missed going to the Spurs and West Brom games.

Luckily Spurs was shown on Sky.

Even though I was told the West Brom game was not worth watching, on Sky in the evening it happened to be the game of the day, I recorded it and watched the next day.

So when you can’t get to the game you miss it, but when you can go it seems some wish they hadn’t gone.

It is ok watching the game on Sky live and seeing it from different angles on replays etc. But you just can’t beat watching your side live at Dean Court.
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WBA was frustrating, really frustrating as apart from Nyom, Rondon and the keeper we had quite clearly a much better side. However we come good in the end and that's the sign of a very good team (Pardew's subs were baffling and Robson-Kanu proved what so many have said to me - that he's a bloody terrible footballer)

Spurs though for a good part of an hour was a delight. However they are top 6 and it's a bonus game. Son is outstanding, in fact he is miles better than Kane - an all round quality player.

Everton was the game I thought we were most wasteful. We should have won that 4 or 5 nil. They only grabbed their goal from a Cookie mistake. Luckily those since then have been less frequent
 
If we didn't have Ake we would let in 4 goals a game, the defence does concern me still and as I've said before we need reinforcements this Summer.

Although the squad is stronger than the previous two seasons and the most talented we've ever had I think we have under performed in alot of games. I've seen too many of those type of games where we look like we don't care, lack of energy, risks, shots, we're lethargic and give the ball away far too much or only try in the last 10 minutes.

There are some exceptions obviously Chelsea away, Arsenal and a fair few late 2nd half performances but we've not matched the performance and work ethic of that first 70 minutes against Arsenal last season at DC and im starting to doubt whether we ever will again.
Even most of the wins - WBA, Stoke x 2, Newcastle, Brighton & Everton were really bad to watch to be honest.

We've also lacked creativity in the final third and desperately need a player of Shelvey ilk to play through some nice passes long and short through the middle or the channels and play to our key strength - pacey forwards. We don't utilize our pace enough in my opinion.

Far too many have gone backwards this season - Daniels, Francis, Wilson, King, B.Smith, Arter & Pugh to name a few. We can't afford to have 3 or 4 players in the starting 11 being carried anymore. King not entirely his fault as I think he's best as a lone forward but the rest are defintely declining and probably won't get back to where they were.
Wilson has lost a yard of pace that made him so deadly and is also abit frightened to get stuck in to defenders at times. Stanislas is another player that really frustrates me - he has one amazing game every 5 matches but in other 4 he looks like a conference player.

We now need to let a few players go and build the team around Ake and Cook. Despite what people say about teams being poor this season I guarantee you next year will be the toughest yet with moneybags Wolves, young Fulham and PL veterans Villa possibly coming up. We now have to make sure we don't get complacent like PL established sides Stoke, WBA and Saints did and perform better than the likes of Brighton, Huddersfield etc and become more consistent with performances and decision making in the final third.

I'm delighted it looks like we will be playing a 4th season in the PL but when you look at Burnley in Europe and with the football they play I do wonder "What if" we had turned up in those games.
 
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I think as far as your last paragraph goes Resevoir we would be in pretty much the same position on account of the amount of last minute goal we’ve had this season making up for some of the wasted games .
 
Ken Baileys Ghost said:
No.

For me it's not where we finish in the league, it's how we play the game.

I'm not sure I like much of what I see at present; we're capable of better.
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Bloody hell !!! How the hell did some of you lot survived the last 40 odd years of total mediocre sh*t.

We’re a very respected small team that plays football the right way and we’re mid table in the PL but apparently Ken doesn’t like much of what he see’s ... please I would love to know exactly what the team are supposed to be doing that is going to make everyone happy ... and please don’t give me that “play to their potential “******************************** .If they did that every game they would be playing for Real Madrid .

Don’t even get me started with “it’s not where we finish in the league it how we play the game “.... Aww they got rid of the limp wristed pink emojis
 
Resevoir_Red said:
If we didn't have Ake we would let in 4 goals a game, the defence does concern me still and as I've said before we need reinforcements this Summer.

Although the squad is stronger than the previous two seasons and the most talented we've ever had I think we have under performed in alot of games. I've seen too many of those type of games where we look like we don't care, lack of energy, risks, shots, we're lethargic and give the ball away far too much or only try in the last 10 minutes.

There are some exceptions obviously Chelsea away, Arsenal and a fair few late 2nd half performances but we've not matched the performance and work ethic of that first 70 minutes against Arsenal last season at DC and im starting to doubt whether we ever will again.
Even most of the wins - WBA, Stoke x 2, Newcastle, Brighton & Everton were really bad to watch to be honest.

We've also lacked creativity in the final third and desperately need a player of Shelvey ilk to play through some nice passes long and short through the middle or the channels and play to our key strength - pacey forwards. We don't utilize our pace enough in my opinion.

Far too many have gone backwards this season - Daniels, Francis, Wilson, King, B.Smith, Arter & Pugh to name a few. We can't afford to have 3 or 4 players in the starting 11 being carried anymore. King not entirely his fault as I think he's best as a lone forward but the rest are defintely declining and probably won't get back to where they were.
Wilson has lost a yard of pace that made him so deadly and is also abit frightened to get stuck in to defenders at times. Stanislas is another player that really frustrates me - he has one amazing game every 5 matches but in other 4 he looks like a conference player.

We now need to let a few players go and build the team around Ake and Cook. Despite what people say about teams being poor this season I guarantee you next year will be the toughest yet with moneybags Wolves, young Fulham and PL veterans Villa possibly coming up. We now have to make sure we don't get complacent like PL established sides Stoke, WBA and Saints did and perform better than the likes of Brighton, Huddersfield etc and become more consistent with performances and decision making in the final third.

I'm delighted it looks like we will be playing a 4th season in the PL but when you look at Burnley in Europe and with the football they play I do wonder "What if" we had turned up in those games.
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Absolutely spot on chap , there was plenty of talk Pre-season of us attempting to do what Burnley have done this season , both from the club and from fans - our awful start with awful performances, barring the City game meant we were catching up from the start . We’ve ended up doing enough to hopefully be safe and that’s it .
 
We were lucky to catch Chelsea and Arsenal on off days in Jan and get 6 points, otherwise we would be right in the sxxt.
This season has shown no improvement, in fact it has been worse because King has not weighed in with the goals that saw us avoid relegation last season.
Only when Stanislas is fit do we really show creativity up front otherwise we really are labouring.
We are now conceding 2 goals a game, and have actually conceded 6 more than West Brom and 12 more than Swansea. Francis, Daniels, Pugh, Ibe and Begovic all need replacing, if we are to progress. There are big question marks over Defoe. He has not weighed in with the goals that were expected of him, especially in recent games when he said he wanted to score the goals to get selected to go to the WC Finals.
The team is going backwards and needs a clear out. Hopefully our scouts have been looking for more than adequate replacements to bring in over the summer.
 
Maybe we should accept the fact that Eddie won't be here much longer. We finished 9th last season which may prove to be the highest we will ever achieve and a remarkable result for a club like us. We only have 2 world class players (Ake and Lewis Cook) and like Southampton, we won't be able to hang on to our best players. Is his work done?
 
wallmth said:
Bloody hell !!! How the hell did some of you lot survived the last 40 odd years of total mediocre sh*t.

We’re a very respected small team that plays football the right way and we’re mid table in the PL but apparently Ken doesn’t like much of what he see’s ... please I would love to know exactly what the team are supposed to be doing that is going to make everyone happy ... and please don’t give me that “play to their potential “******** .If they did that every game they would be playing for Real Madrid .

Don’t even get me started with “it’s not where we finish in the league it how we play the game “.... Aww they got rid of the limp wristed pink emojis
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We want the players to play more often to their potential. As they have in the previous two seasons. Like they get paid a lot for. We want Ibe to track back and Surman not to give up running and Stanislas to tackle occasionaly.

And no we wouldn’t be Real Madrid if they do that every game as none of our players could play for Madrid. But we might be Burnley. Yes there will always be off days but how many total ‘on’ days have you seen this year.
 
stanthevan said:
Maybe we should accept the fact that Eddie won't be here much longer. We finished 9th last season which may prove to be the highest we will ever achieve and a remarkable result for a club like us. We only have 2 world class players (Ake and Lewis Cook) and like Southampton, we won't be able to hang on to our best players. Is his work done?
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If you look at the history of many established Championship clubs and some PL clubs you will struggle to find higher than a 9th place finish in the PL. It was a fantastic achievement, call it our zenith if you like but we all know that if we don't beat that, this season will be looked up by some fans as a failure. Which is quite frankly laughable isn't it?
 
stanthevan said:
Maybe we should accept the fact that Eddie won't be here much longer. We finished 9th last season which may prove to be the highest we will ever achieve and a remarkable result for a club like us. We only have 2 world class players (Ake and Lewis Cook) and like Southampton, we won't be able to hang on to our best players. Is his work done?
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I don't think Eddie will be going anywhere until the academy and new ground is complete, so that leave us with him for 3 years at least. I don't think we'll go down with him in charge either.
 
red_house said:
Are you kidding me...you want to be a Burnley ?

Park the bus and have a few big lumps up front. No thanks.

We're doing all right. We all know the limitations of many players in our squad and year on year they will get replaced.
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I’m using Burnley as an example of limited resource sticking to principles with sensible acquisition. You can do that in any style of play. Swansea did it it with our style of play with Martinez and Rodgers.

Of course I wouldn’t want us to play like them. Fulham, Wigan, Swansea, Charlton, Ipswich, Southampton all finished top eight playing good football in last twenty five years.

That’s what you aim at....not champions league.
 
As with any mid-table side there will be areas of improvement and also of dissapointment. Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U at the top have had some awful performances as we know and Watford, Newcastle and Leicester similar to us with things not being consistent.
Eddies problems have been with lack of transfer strengthening with the defence and injuries to players like Smithy and Stan, using Fraser out of position, problems with Harry etc. So many other off-field factors can affect games that we won't ever know about. Many footballers are like kids, are very fickle and changeable in their attitudes. So Eddies had more to deal with than just simple selection each week. Great though to have a manager who is so committed in his tracksuit compared to Hughes with hands in pockets in a suit trying to look intelligent!
However I think the Dubai thing is counter-productive! Better ways surely of filling the gaps than a part-holiday!
But, for me it's still a great ride and what an explosive, exciting finish coming up!
 
We changed our style this season so that the "wingers" sit in more narrowly to help out the midfield - this was clear from the very first game at West Brom. This was obviously with the intention to help us be stronger defensively and so that EH could stick with his preferred 2 in midfield. Goals against suggest this has not worked greatly but we have become harder to beat so the change has been partly successful.

As evidence of this it should be noted that since our poor start to the season (where in the first 6 games we lost to West Brom, Watford & Everton) the only games we have lost have been to the "big 6" plus Burnley at home (the 7th best team) and that blip at Huddersfield. So we have been very competitive against the teams who are realistically our main opposition in this league.

Unfortunately this change does mean we have not been as "gunho" in our forward play as you frequently see the "wingers" less willing to just bomb forward as they have more defensively responsibilities. This and a lot players either being off form means it has not been as exciting to watch - however we are still way better to watch than the majority of other teams in our section of the league. You simply cannot have it all on a regular basis at this level unless you are the big teams and can get the best players who can do everything.

So whilst we have improved some aspects we have lost out in others and this is the general problem all teams have. It will be interesting to see how EH approaches next season - does he get new personnel in try and play this system more successfully or tweak it and try something else.
 
I don't think we need to improve every season, but we do need to evolve our style regularly. Wingers on the wrong foot with overlapping fullbacks was superb for us, but at this level the opposition have watched everything you've done previously.

All clubs have players that get older and other players that lose form. Likewise, all clubs are looking to buy ready-made players to fit certain positions.

The way we differ from most is in EH often bringing in players that will fill certain roles in a season or two when they get used to our coaching methods and style of play. This is not popular with many posters!

Begovic and Ake were both excellent 'immediate impact' signings, but to expect other players of their calibre to sign for us to play in front of 11,000 at home with no experience of the club is hopeful at best. Perhaps we could use the loan market more to play the long game?

If we win our next game then that will be a defining moment for me, if we don't but still finish above them it will still be a successful season to look back on with pride.
 
Seems judging by this thread Eddie and the team should never have finishing 9 last season , only 8th or higher would be considered a reasonable season by some ....the entitlement :shake:

We were all very excited at the end of last season .We finished 9th ,next season we’ll be pushing for Europe obviously ,because ,well because that’s what we do .we finish higher every season ...it doesn’t work like that .
 
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The problem for Eddie and getting new players to fit in with our style of football, are they available?

Can he compete financially with other teams who might be after the same player?

Are those available any better or a player/s for the future like the signings of Emerson Hyndman and Connor Mahoney who we saw very little of.

Eddie signed Glen Murray who has regularly scored goals for other clubs and he looked like he might be the answer for us. But he wasn’t an Eddie type of player in the end and we didn’t get the best out of him.

Questions were asked when Murray went to Brighton would he still be there if they reached the PL. His 23 goals had a lot to do with their promotion. As to the question would Brighton keep him for the PL, the answer was yes and he is again their leading scorer with 12, more than any of our strikers.

Jermain Defoe a favourite of Cherries fans from his past goal record playing for our club. If only we could get the best out of him that he showed last season at Sunderland.

Our fans mentioned various names on here who might be good for our team, easy throwing names around, but if Eddie was also interested, getting their signature will be a different matter, once their agent has touted them around other interested clubs.

Getting to a fourth season of survival in the PL is testament to how well this club has come in a very short time.
 
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Neil Dawson said:
I’m using Burnley as an example of limited resource sticking to principles with sensible acquisition. You can do that in any style of play. Swansea did it it with our style of play with Martinez and Rodgers.

Of course I wouldn’t want us to play like them. Fulham, Wigan, Swansea, Charlton, Ipswich, Southampton all finished top eight playing good football in last twenty five years.

That’s what you aim at....not champions league.
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Is top 8 and top half really that much of a difference ?.Do you think any of those teams talk today about the year they came 8th .
Being in the top 17 is all that really matters .
 
I think it's naive to think Eddie wouldn't leave until the new ground and Academy are completed. Even if he had said it himself, when a big club like Everton come courting, before that possibly, he would be per suaded somehow!
With no bricks being laid as yet it all looks very dodgy, this ground and Academy stuff ! So much talk and no action after 3 seasons up!
If it doesn't happen soon the momentum of the rise will fizzle out and the benefactors will move to other interests! They are not locals and are business people first!
 
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