The Alchemist
UTC Legend
Time we made more noise then.
Joshua King
- Thread starter RichGo
- Start date
Time we made more noise then.
kirsikka
UTC Legend
I remember in the Championship year a couple of opposition managers starting making noise about the decisions we were getting, I think McCarthy was one, and suddenly we couldn't buy even the clearest penalty.
Eddie then spoke up for one of the few times I can remember and lashed out at the refs a little. Result? We started getting deserved decisions again.
Might be time to not be so softly-softly about it from him again. Who knows what's around the corner, points maybe lost partly as a result of not getting decisions could become crucial by the season end.
simonhpieman
Star Player
I believe the technicality is this:
The referee doesn't see it and it's not in the report.
The referee sees it, mentions it in his report and states no action required from his point of view.
If it's the latter, I think I'm right in saying no action can be taken which makes the referee look especially bad. If it's the former, I think action can be taken.
Druss_the_Legend
UTC Legend
Just remember people, Francis was sent off and Leicester awarded a penalty for successfully making a recovering tackle in the box.
If only he had known to put his knee into his head instead all would have been good!
If only he had known to put his knee into his head instead all would have been good!
Kudos
UTC Legend
That rule is just codifying bias, don't like a player keep giving fouls against them and book them when they show frustration.
Negredo was right in the refs face shouting about a decision that went against him and nothing, sarcastic applause from Arter over an incorrect decision, yellow card.
kirsikka
UTC Legend
I've been thinking this for some weeks now and I've also seen other people mention something similar or intimate it so I don't think I'm alone.
When we signed King he was very clear that he wanted to play as a striker and not out wide, where Blackburn had mostly used him. Last season we spent some time helping him to adjust to be exactly the kind of striker we need to play down the middle in the current system. By the end of it, he was an absolute terror.
The return of Wilson and the adjustments in formation have him now in a wide forward role. It isn't that he can't do a job there, he's perfectly competent and has shown he can make a real impact there sometimes. However, he seemed far more of a threat down the middle.
It's clear EH and JT want to play Wilson back into the form he showed before his injury but the lack of any real impact by Afobe from the bench so far makes me think we'd be better off swapping King and Wilson out for the central attacking role, whichever is starting.
Plus, should things be going really poorly out wide then there's always King as a cameo option there. A defender prepped and used to playing, for example, Ibe for 70 minutes might then wet themselves if the pace of King got moved over there whilst a centre half wouldn't exactly be overjoyed to see Wilson come on fresh at that time either.
With Ibe, Gradel, Fraser and Stanislas in the squad we have a number of players for the wide attacking roles and so it isn't a shortage of options forcing us to play King there, instead a seeming desire to shoehorn him and Wilson into the same side from the outset.
It's a little like the Gerrard/Lampard England situation of yore. Instead of moving Gerrard all over the place to try and play them both the team would always have been much better if the manager had been brave, picked one and had the other on the bench.
That's how I see it anyway, anyone else?
When we signed King he was very clear that he wanted to play as a striker and not out wide, where Blackburn had mostly used him. Last season we spent some time helping him to adjust to be exactly the kind of striker we need to play down the middle in the current system. By the end of it, he was an absolute terror.
The return of Wilson and the adjustments in formation have him now in a wide forward role. It isn't that he can't do a job there, he's perfectly competent and has shown he can make a real impact there sometimes. However, he seemed far more of a threat down the middle.
It's clear EH and JT want to play Wilson back into the form he showed before his injury but the lack of any real impact by Afobe from the bench so far makes me think we'd be better off swapping King and Wilson out for the central attacking role, whichever is starting.
Plus, should things be going really poorly out wide then there's always King as a cameo option there. A defender prepped and used to playing, for example, Ibe for 70 minutes might then wet themselves if the pace of King got moved over there whilst a centre half wouldn't exactly be overjoyed to see Wilson come on fresh at that time either.
With Ibe, Gradel, Fraser and Stanislas in the squad we have a number of players for the wide attacking roles and so it isn't a shortage of options forcing us to play King there, instead a seeming desire to shoehorn him and Wilson into the same side from the outset.
It's a little like the Gerrard/Lampard England situation of yore. Instead of moving Gerrard all over the place to try and play them both the team would always have been much better if the manager had been brave, picked one and had the other on the bench.
That's how I see it anyway, anyone else?
Standent
Reserves
That's exactly what happened away at Watford. Ibe was subbed for King and he scored inside a minute of coming on.
King needs to improve his finishing to play through the middle. He's not a player I trust to find the corner of the net consistently - he tends to hit the keeper (whereas Wilson has that knack of finding the corner, and Wilshire has that knack of finding the post).
But I don't think he's being shoe-horned as such. EH has been shuffling the pack to deal with absences and he's versatile enough to play out there (plus I think he's ahead of Fraser). But assuming Surman, Arter and Wilshire all play, I think I'd tend to go with Wilson, Stanislas and then either King or Ibe. And that was the midfield / fwd line up for Watford (a) - Ibe started ahead of King.
ChiknJorge
First Team
King is the best striker at the club. He's consistently effective
Wilson can't match his pace which is the thing most teams fear, especially away from home
Wilson can't match his pace which is the thing most teams fear, especially away from home
Neil Dawson
UTC Legend
Had we not got Wilshere I think we would have seen them both.
I agree with DJ and others that say while his pace is better than Wilson his finishing isn't. He doesn't get enough scruffy goals or attack crosses. I do however, think he is as good as any of our wingers, if not better, so understand Eddie starting him in his second best position and think it's the right thing to do. The bigger worry is the lack of a centre forward option on the bench.
I agree with DJ and others that say while his pace is better than Wilson his finishing isn't. He doesn't get enough scruffy goals or attack crosses. I do however, think he is as good as any of our wingers, if not better, so understand Eddie starting him in his second best position and think it's the right thing to do. The bigger worry is the lack of a centre forward option on the bench.
billythekid
UTC Legend
He is a Brighton and putting them away on a regular basis.
We have the young inexperienced French striker who Eddie has brought on recently.
We have the young inexperienced French striker who Eddie has brought on recently.
Tinpot Club
Star Player
While he did OK on Sunday, the one position I don't like King playing in is Wilshere's position. He doesn't have the technique to play in tight spaces and I hope we don't go back to playing King as a 10 when Jack goes back.
I really like him as a wide forward where he can use his explosive pace to better effect and it's not quite as vital to be clinical.
Like others have said, I'm slightly concerned about our lack of cutting edge in the Striker position. However, Wilson and Afobe have both proved themselves as good finishers at Championship level and I think they will eventually come good. I'd rather we preserved with them than spend big money on yet another new striker who fails to be an improvement.
I really like him as a wide forward where he can use his explosive pace to better effect and it's not quite as vital to be clinical.
Like others have said, I'm slightly concerned about our lack of cutting edge in the Striker position. However, Wilson and Afobe have both proved themselves as good finishers at Championship level and I think they will eventually come good. I'd rather we preserved with them than spend big money on yet another new striker who fails to be an improvement.
northstandmark
UTC Legend
At Blackburn, King was a winger who hugged the touchline and never got near the box aside from crossing.
Here, even as a winger King is allowed the freedom to roam, to run beyond the centre forward, to cut inside, to get into the box. No reason why King wide and Wilson central can't work well as a unit, although granted I don't think it's yet worked to the max potential.
Here, even as a winger King is allowed the freedom to roam, to run beyond the centre forward, to cut inside, to get into the box. No reason why King wide and Wilson central can't work well as a unit, although granted I don't think it's yet worked to the max potential.
The Alchemist
UTC Legend
Completely agree. There was more than one occasion that King's pace engineered a break away but he did not have the technical skills to get the final defence splitting ball into Wilson and the chance was lost.
The number 10 role must be filled by an attacking midfielder rather than a forward dropping deep - at least for our style.
SlowDownDerek
UTC Legend
I think King has looked good in the number 10 role in patches such as the first half at palace but it's definitely not his best position. I tend to agree with kirsikka in that his best position is up top and that there's a strong case that he should be starting there ahead of Wilson. As others have said though he's not been clinical enough to force himself into that position so I'd still probably plump for Wilson for the time being. One thing I'd say though is that 60 minutes is plenty for whoever does start to prove they are the man for the job - if they aren't looking like making a breakthrough then they're off and one of the others gets a go. Between Wilson, King and Afobe we should have enough goals in the side. If one starts to show a bit of form then they should start.
Springbournered
Reserves
Would you prefer to see a four or five man midfield?
I think we will go with similar to what we had at Everton if Daniels is out!
Midfield:
Fraser:Wilshere:Gosling:Ater:Stanislas
Back 3 of Cook, Mings and Brad Smith
Going forward we look awesome, defending we look fragile although both Junior and Wee-man have the pace, stamina and ability to chase back and get a challenge in.
I think we will go with similar to what we had at Everton if Daniels is out!
Midfield:
Fraser:Wilshere:Gosling:Ater:Stanislas
Back 3 of Cook, Mings and Brad Smith
Going forward we look awesome, defending we look fragile although both Junior and Wee-man have the pace, stamina and ability to chase back and get a challenge in.
