Non - Pandemic

DJ said:
There’s no evidence that lockdowns work? Why are cases now increasing now that restrictions are lifting then? Despite millions of vaccine doses being administered?
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There has never been irrefutable evidence that lockdowns make any difference. The country that locked down quickest and hardest, Peru, has now adjusted its figures and has the highest death toll in the world. The subject has long divided opinion as I am sure you are aware.
 
davygravy said:
I have my exemption lanyard in action now, so its made a massive difference to my mental health the last two weeks wearing one. I do believe I qualify for one anyway and now I am double jabbed, I will never be any safer to everyone else than I am right now! Get your own lanyard!
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davygravy said:
Get an exemption lanyard, quite simple, if it effects mental health in any way, you genuinely qualify to wear one. And no, everywhere now is a very very low risk of getting this.
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Exemption lanyards aren't a thing. Someone is having him on.
 
davygravy said:
There has never been irrefutable evidence that lockdowns make any difference. The country that locked down quickest and hardest, Peru, has now adjusted its figures and has the highest death toll in the world. The subject has long divided opinion as I am sure you are aware.
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People need to challenge this guy on the stuff he posts. Pretty sure he's got me on ignore because he didn't like being challenged last time. Peru's lockdown didn't work because they all buggered off home to rural areas once the lockdown kicked in and it subsequently spread like wildfire.

Obviously that doesn't apply in this country. To see if lockdown worked here you might, I don't know, look at our figures. Case numbers responded straight away here the stats prove it clear as day.

Davygravy is happy to quote the bmj when he thinks it's evidence of the harm masks do (it isn't) yet whenever any scientist says something he doesn't like it because they are a 'nutty professor'. Funny that.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n611
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Obviously that doesn't apply in this country. To see if lockdown worked here you might, I don't know, look at our figures. Case numbers responded straight away here the stats prove it clear as day.
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Lockdown helped. It contributed to the fall in cases. But it wasn't the sole cause and we don't know to what extent it just delayed cases as opposed to eliminating them.

The thing about waves of disease is that, like the waves of the sea, they rise and they fall. Obviously the rise in cases couldn't go on for ever, or we would all eventually be catching the virus two or three times per day each. Like all virus waves, with or without lockdown, it would have receded eventually. We brought in lockdown when the wave was rising, and the wave receded - as I say, lockdown contributed - but if I stand by the sea and say "go back" every time a wave comes towards me, the wave will go back, and it won't be because I told it to.

Lockdown had an effect on the number of cases, that's not in doubt. How much of an effect? We would all like to know.
 
dsr-burnley said:
Lockdown helped. It contributed to the fall in cases. But it wasn't the sole cause and we don't know to what extent it just delayed cases as opposed to eliminating them.

The thing about waves of disease is that, like the waves of the sea, they rise and they fall. Obviously the rise in cases couldn't go on for ever, or we would all eventually be catching the virus two or three times per day each. Like all virus waves, with or without lockdown, it would have receded eventually. We brought in lockdown when the wave was rising, and the wave receded - as I say, lockdown contributed - but if I stand by the sea and say "go back" every time a wave comes towards me, the wave will go back, and it won't be because I told it to.

Lockdown had an effect on the number of cases, that's not in doubt. How much of an effect? We would all like to know.
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That’s all fair but we've had three lockdowns all at different times of year and all sharply stopped the increase in cases within two weeks. The November one stopped the second wave in its tracks then when restrictions were lifted the wave came back in a huge way. I'd say that's pretty good evidence as to how much of an effect lockdowns have in this country.
 
Lockdowns have worked, the problem was they were not done early enough.

This might be down to political pressure from some within the governments own party over advice from the scientific/medical advice given.

It looked like Boris had listened in the end to those in the field of science/medicine when they came up with the road map of gradual unlocking.

That was until again acting too late on putting India on the Red list when warned in advance to act, which may slow unlocking fully again or with certain restrictions still in place.

Everyone has the right to air their view, even if we don’t agree with each other.
 
All health restrictions lifted on June 2nd, except for nursing homes and assisted living facilities. No more mask mandates. It is an odd time as some businesses still require masks for non vaccinated people, but its based on the “honor system”. Having gone through a global pandemic in the US, I know that the “honor system” is bullshit. The people that we expect to do the honorable thing are the same people who were against the mask mandate, the same people pushing anti vax conspiracy. But hey, I am protected with a double jab. Let everyone make their own decisions.

Went to the mall today, not many people there. Quite a bit of confusion as some businesses still required masks, others did not. As long as it was clearly displayed either way it was ok, but some businesses were ambiguous.

Starbucks, I think, got it right...displaying a message that said,

For fully vaccinated people masks were optional.

No more, no less. For anyone that wants to roll the dice, go for it.

It was great to see kids and families at our local park enjoying the beautiful weather and the outdoor “spray ground” that has been closed for 14 months.
 
There has been so much evidence globally showing how lockdowns work with varying effect. From doing it early, the stricter, the longer etc etc.

At this point if you look at all of that evidence and remain unconvinced with the effect it has battling against case numbers of covid, let alone the evolution of the virus, then I’d say you’ll never be persuaded.

But just a reminder of one chart I posted before.

Note the trends continue to rise until a few days after lockdown comes in due to the delay in exposure to the virus. The trend then begins to plateau before dropping. The UK far quicker than the USA due to stricter restrictions. The trends also show the different in age groups between those vaccinated and unvaccinated.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1384878148597305350
 
davygravy said:
Get an exemption lanyard, quite simple, if it effects mental health in any way, you genuinely qualify to wear one. And no, everywhere now is a very very low risk of getting this.
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Thanks @davygravy, I could qualify for an exemption on a couple of grounds. However it's a bit like car seatbelts, doesn't feel right when not wearing one. Unfortunately I don't get out too often and it doesn't really affect my mental health, just makes me feel uncomfortable. The upside is that the mask hides most of my ugly mush, thus not scaring the little kiddies! ;);)
 
Last week I visited a local farm shop and there was an elderly woman inside with no mask (maybe exempt) wearing a T-shirt with ANTI VAXXER AND PROUD in large letters on the front and back. Probably lucky that everyone else was wearing masks, thus protecting her to some degree. A few people were making comments about her. I know it's her choice but I wouldn't advertise it so blatantly. Plus the fact she could only park her car diagonally across two spaces!
 
"The spread amongst children does have an impact on others.” Comment in isolation takes the discussion completely out of context. It was actually a very good interview, first time I’ve seen Trevor Phillips and thought he was excellent.
 
Interesting ethical debate to be read in the papers. Not sure I can form a firm view either way currently.

It seems children play a role in transmitting covid to adults.
Vaccinating them may reduce that, to an unknown extent.

Children rarely suffer from covid themselves, and giving them vaccines puts them at a risk (however small) of side effects often discussed in recent months.

Is it fair to ask kids to take that risk for something unlikely to hurt them directly? But it might benefit others in their family.

Would we be better off giving the vaccines earmarked by some for our children, to more vulnerable adults in other countries. Perhaps those with whom we share large travel connections?

Lots to unpack, opinions are divided among medical experts. JCVI say they aren't going to rush into a decision
 
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