Non - Petrol and Diesel new sales banned from 2030

Silent AFCB said:
We're either going to need to see incredible advances in batteries or a switch to hydrogen, which has been superior to electric from the offset.

Probably time to invest in a few battery company stocks.
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Or we just need to change our habits and accept that the vast majority of our journeys are well within the range of current EVs provided the charging infrastructure is there.

The main problem with hydrogen has always been that it is extremely expensive to create the safe mass infrastructure needed to deliver it to individual vehicles. Also it is still generated from hydrocarbons and in the short term does not move us away from fossil fuels.

Electric vehicles are more efficient overall and allow us flexibility to generate the electricity from whatever source we choose. 100% clean renewable is achievable.
 
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kirsikka said:
I think you misunderstood. We need to warm up our ICE cars. Starting the engines from cold when it's been -15 or so overnight greatly shortens their life. This was realised many years ago and so now virtually every car comes with a way to plug it in which warms up the engine. You set it for a time so it runs about 90 minutes before you think you're going to leave.

An occasional start from that cold won't damage the engine but if you do it every day you're going to have a very expensive repair bill so everyone is used to it as standard here.

Here's an old image from a couple of years back I sent to a friend that asked about it.

View attachment 4496
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I think you have misunderstood not me. You pre heat the batteries to get better range. An EV is very simple. What are you meant to be doing to the motor for 90mins? It's not needed but it's a nice to do.

Also...I think we all know what plugging a car in looks like ;)
 
kirsikka said:
I think you misunderstood. We need to warm up our ICE cars. Starting the engines from cold when it's been -15 or so overnight greatly shortens their life. This was realised many years ago and so now virtually every car comes with a way to plug it in which warms up the engine. You set it for a time so it runs about 90 minutes before you think you're going to leave.

An occasional start from that cold won't damage the engine but if you do it every day you're going to have a very expensive repair bill so everyone is used to it as standard here.

Here's an old image from a couple of years back I sent to a friend that asked about it.

View attachment 4496
Click to expand...

yeah its not good for longevity leaving ICE idling for more time than absolutely necessary.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
My anti EV bingo card is filling up :)

"virtually every other EV looks weird/awful at the moment." Which ones look weird? Virtually every other EV is made as a petrol, diesel or electric. Is your issue with modern car design that than the power plant inside?

"We're either going to need to see incredible advances in batteries or a switch to hydrogen, which has been superior to electric from the offset. " Why? Please explain.
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Seriously, pure EV's, not hybrid. Most of them look terrible (a bit 'special/space-age' looking for want of a better term), although looks of course are subjective.
 
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Red Sky said:
Or we just need to change our habits and accept that the vast majority of our journeys are well within the range of current EVs provided the charging infrastructure is there.

The main problem with hydrogen has always been that it is extremely expensive to create the safe mass infrastructure needed to deliver it to individual vehicles. Also it is still generated from hydrocarbons and in the short term does not move us away from fossil fuels.

Electric vehicles are more efficient overall and allow us flexibility to generate the electricity from whatever source we choose. 100% clean renewable is achievable.
Click to expand...
Producing the batteries is certainly not very clean, nor is producing the electricity in any realstic timeframe to come (think I'll have hit another item on Druss' bingo card - do I get a prize?)

Bring on those new nuclear power stations please.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
I think you have misunderstood not me. You pre heat the batteries to get better range. An EV is very simple. What are you meant to be doing to the motor for 90mins? It's not needed but it's a nice to do.

Also...I think we all know what plugging a car in looks like ;)
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Let me try again as I've obviously worded it badly. I was responding to the complaints about how it would work for those that have street parking.

I was trying to make the point that this issue had to be solved here decades ago, long before EV were ever even a remote consideration, as ICE cars need to have their engines warmed to stop them getting screwed by the overnight temperatures.

Therefore, the complaints that about EV and street parking were eminently solvable as I've seen it in action, even if the current car plugging thing isn't for electric cars the infrastructure is in place to show it can work perfectly well.

I was supporting your point.
 
kirsikka said:
I think you misunderstood. We need to warm up our ICE cars. Starting the engines from cold when it's been -15 or so overnight greatly shortens their life. This was realised many years ago and so now virtually every car comes with a way to plug it in which warms up the engine. You set it for a time so it runs about 90 minutes before you think you're going to leave.

An occasional start from that cold won't damage the engine but if you do it every day you're going to have a very expensive repair bill so everyone is used to it as standard here.

Here's an old image from a couple of years back I sent to a friend that asked about it.

View attachment 4496
Click to expand...
That's really interesting, not an issue I'd considered before.
I guess it's fine for a repeatable daily routine, as long as you can build in 90 minutes of notice before you need to get anywhere.

Might be something Scottish owners would need at certain times of year, less so down here.
 
kirsikka said:
Let me try again as I've obviously worded it badly. I was responding to the complaints about how it would work for those that have street parking.

I was trying to make the point that this issue had to be solved here decades ago, long before EV were ever even a remote consideration, as ICE cars need to have their engines warmed to stop them getting screwed by the overnight temperatures.

Therefore, the complaints that about EV and street parking were eminently solvable as I've seen it in action, even if the current car plugging thing isn't for electric cars the infrastructure is in place to show it can work perfectly well.

I was supporting your point.
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Ah sorry!
 
Red Sky said:
Or we just need to change our habits and accept that the vast majority of our journeys are well within the range of current EVs provided the charging infrastructure is there.

The main problem with hydrogen has always been that it is extremely expensive to create the safe mass infrastructure needed to deliver it to individual vehicles. Also it is still generated from hydrocarbons and in the short term does not move us away from fossil fuels.

Electric vehicles are more efficient overall and allow us flexibility to generate the electricity from whatever source we choose. 100% clean renewable is achievable.
Click to expand...

How much will it cost to replace your batteries every 4-5 years because your range has now halved? Not everyone will be able to afford Tesla batteries in their cars. 10 years is a long time so who knows, but right now the costs would be pretty big.

Something needs to be done, but Hydrogen would be by far the least work just maintaining all the current petrol stations. Electric is going to need charging points on pretty much every residential street with parking. It requires a whopping investment as well digging up roads or pavements to put the cables in.
 
northstandmark said:
Producing the batteries is certainly not very clean, nor is producing the electricity in any realstic timeframe to come (think I'll have hit another item on Druss' bingo card - do I get a prize?)

Bring on those new nuclear power stations please.
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There are definitely challenges in producing batteries but there is a large net reduction in greenhouse gases which surely is the immediate goal to slow down climate change? We can recycle batteries and once the technology improves they will become cleaner to make and more efficient. That doesn't mean we should not do anything until we reach that point.

In this country we now generate more electricity from renewables than from fossil fuels. We are getting there.
 
Silent AFCB said:
How much will it cost to replace your batteries every 4-5 years because your range has now halved? Not everyone will be able to afford Tesla batteries in their cars. 10 years is a long time so who knows, but right now the costs would be pretty big.

Something needs to be done, but Hydrogen would be by far the least work just maintaining all the current petrol stations. Electric is going to need charging points on pretty much every residential street with parking. It requires a whopping investment as well digging up roads or pavements to put the cables in.
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No you're just wrong. Go and do some research.
 
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