Ouattara non goal

Kudos said:
Again you're describing a dangerous tackle which is a red card offence.

Getting the balls doesn't give you license to take out the player as well.
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No, I'm saying it's not a dangerous tackle, he gets the ball fairly, hardly wipes Dango put. It is never in a million years a penalty. If it was given up the other end people would rightly be going nuts. He hardly wiped Dango out, did he? Would you be OK with a pen being given against us for that?
 
BoscombeCherry said:
No, I'm saying it's not a dangerous tackle, he gets the ball fairly, hardly wipes Dango put. It is never in a million years a penalty. If it was given up the other end people would rightly be going nuts. He hardly wiped Dango out, did he? Would you be OK with a pen being given against us for that?
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I agree it's not a dangerous tackle but that's the threshold for a red card not a foul.

Considering in that situation most players just run into the 'keeper and get a pen. I don't like it but we've won and conceded many penalties this way.
 
Kudos said:
I agree it's not a dangerous tackle but that's the threshold for a red card not a foul.

Considering in that situation most players just run into the 'keeper and get a pen. I don't like it but we've won and conceded many penalties this way.
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It needs to be careless, reckless or with excessive force to be a foul. If they get the ball first and it's not dangerous then can it be a foul?
 
Kudos said:
I agree it's not a dangerous tackle but that's the threshold for a red card not a foul.

Considering in that situation most players just run into the 'keeper and get a pen. I don't like it but we've won and conceded many penalties this way.
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Don't get me wrong, we've had some decision go horribly against us in both boxes in recent years and you're right, dangerous isn't the threshold. I just don't see how this can be seen as anything other than the keeper fairly challenging for the ball and winning the ball. The handball bit is more contentous for me, not because it was given but because of the rule. Similar to Havertz having his goal disallowed against Villa.
 
It's simple. Handball isn't the same all over the pitch. Or even in the penalty area. Same as pulling a shirt, that's a foul sometimes and not other times. And tackling, Onana's tackle is a foul anywhere else on the pitch, or by a player who isn't the goalie in the penalty area. Unless it's against Bournemouth.

How can anyone not understand?
 
To me it’s simple.

It’s a foul because he wasn’t in control of his body and he clipped the player after the ball went past him.

It’s a handball under the current ridiculous handball law. I don’t agree with it but in the letter of the law it is.

So ref should have determined no advantage could have been played as the foul led to the unbalanced unnatural hand position and awarded a pen.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
It needs to be careless, reckless or with excessive force to be a foul. If they get the ball first and it's not dangerous then can it be a foul?
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I misremembered before digging out the gifs because Dango does get the first touch it just deflects off the 'keepers leg but to answer your question you can get the ball but catch the man because you're being careless, reckless or with excessive force and therefore concede a foul.
 
Neil Dawson said:
To me it’s simple.

It’s a foul because he wasn’t in control of his body and he clipped the player after the ball went past him.

It’s a handball under the current ridiculous handball law. I don’t agree with it but in the letter of the law it is.

So ref should have determined no advantage could have been played as the foul led to the unbalanced unnatural hand position and awarded a pen.
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I don't personally think it's a foul as he gets the ball which in my mind doesn't make it careless or reckless but it's one that could go either way. On the second point it depends if VAR think it hits his left hand/arm or just his right. If the handball is with his left it's prior to the 'foul' and therefore no pen even if it is a foul by the keeper.
 
Kudos said:
I misremembered before digging out the gifs because Dango does get the first touch it just deflects off the 'keepers leg but to answer your question you can get the ball but catch the man because you're being careless, reckless or with excessive force and therefore concede a foul.
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Yes of course you can but that's not what happens here imo. There's no danger of injuring the player with the way he goes out. He's entitled to go for a 50/50 ball but obviously if he misses and gets the man it's careless - that's not what happens though.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I don't personally think it's a foul as he gets the ball which in my mind doesn't make it careless or reckless but it's one that could go either way. On the second point it depends if VAR think it hits his left hand/arm or just his right. If the handball is with his left it's prior to the 'foul' and therefore no pen even if it is a foul by the keeper.
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Surely it’s the one after can’t see one before can you?
 
I'd have been livid if that was given as a penalty against us. Keeper spreads himself, makes the save, and then contacts the player.

I also agree with @AFCB_Liam that by touching Dango's hand, it looked as if it took the ball away from the defender and back into his path for an easier finish. Again, if it had happened against us, I think I'd be calling for handball.

I agree that the law is awful, but in this case, I can see that by touching his hand it could be argued to have given Dango an advantage.

Easy to say when we won 3-0!
 
BoscombeCherry said:
Don't get me wrong, we've had some decision go horribly against us in both boxes in recent years and you're right, dangerous isn't the threshold. I just don't see how this can be seen as anything other than the keeper fairly challenging for the ball and winning the ball. The handball bit is more contentous for me, not because it was given but because of the rule. Similar to Havertz having his goal disallowed against Villa.
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Agree that the handball is correct application of a terrible rule but disagree with the foul.

Their 'keeper lifts his legs, leaves an arm out and makes no attempt to avoid taking out Dango after the ball deflects off him. He's second to the ball, doesn't win possession and all but takes out the man.
 
Interesting.

What this thread shows to me is why VAR doesn’t work. None of us are experts (although I’m a so called expert tbf) but we are all knowledgeable football watchers and nobody agrees.

Has to be the decision of one man in the heat of the battle. If he gets it wrong he gets it wrong. Now that we’ve ascertained the tv refs also get it wrong so we can’t eradicate errors all we are left with are the delays and the muted goal celebrations.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Interesting.

What this thread shows to me is why VAR doesn’t work. None of us are experts (although I’m a so called expert tbf) but we are all knowledgeable football watchers and nobody agrees.

Has to be the decision of one man in the heat of the battle. If he gets it wrong he gets it wrong. Now that we’ve ascertained the tv refs also get it wrong so we can’t eradicate errors all we are left with are the delays and the muted goal celebrations.
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The solution is simple.
The ref should have just asked Dango on his mother's life if he'd actually touched it with his hand ! We need more of this sort of thing in the rulebook !
:shrug: :p
 
I'm surprised Dango celebrated as much as he did, he must have known the handball would be spotted.

A couple of games ago a Man Utd goal was disallowed for Maguire being offside, and he was clearly not celebrating with the others during the VAR review.
 
Surely, Onana's foot catches the ball but doesn't alter its forward trajectory towards goal and he then trips Outtara causing him to stumble . So, penalty if it goes to VAR and is analysed from 37 different angles in slow motion for 5 minutes and the striker plays for the team the EPL has told the PGMOL should win the PL this season. Otherwise it's handball as Dango is very obviously windmilling his arms with the intention of knocking the ball into the goal.
Really it's things like this that turn you into NOC it's such utter b@ll@cks.
 
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