Philip

Cherriess said:
Could be a partnership to consider. Kilkenny is (well certainly was) vulnerable when pressed but he has the killer pass. Cook can protect him, tidy up and go on a few runs.
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I do think that Kilkenny will get opportunities under Iraola. He's young, full of energy and has good feet. In a lot of ways he is a blank sheet of paper. He can be moulded into the sort of player the new boss needs for a certain role.
I certainly expect him to be given opportunities to prove himself this season, unless of course we end up bringing in a load of expensive midfield talent before the window closes.
But personally I'd like to see Kilkenny being played regularly and gradually improving under Iraola. It will take time, he will make mistakes but I do think that as a young player he would be open to working hard and learning on the job, but he needs the opportunity.
 
Cherriess said:
Could be a partnership to consider. Kilkenny is (well certainly was) vulnerable when pressed but he has the killer pass. Cook can protect him, tidy up and go on a few runs.
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Sounds a bit lightweight to me that. Prime Cook could be an option, but he still lacks the physical attributes of Lerma. More often than not these days he tends to give away possession and free kicks in dangerous positions without looking like winning the ball cleanly.

Kilkenny deserves to be given a run but with a different foil IMO.
 
Red Sky said:
Sounds a bit lightweight to me that. Prime Cook could be an option, but he still lacks the physical attributes of Lerma. More often than not these days he tends to give away possession and free kicks in dangerous positions without looking like winning the ball cleanly.

Kilkenny deserves to be given a run but with a different foil IMO.
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yeah that's the issue isn't it. Plus if we sign Scott I'd imagine that'd push kilkenny further down as although Scott is probably a little more attack minded, they'd likely jostle for similar central role in the formation. Kilkenny surely woukd have to play in kind of Rothwell cm role/deep lying play maker, but doesn't appear tough/resolute enough defensively to play as lone deeper player as Cook did on Saturday. (Which i doubt it is).. seems disastrous idea if that's the plan, but who knows.

That said, I doubt the plan is to start Kilkenny if he isn't loaned out, bit get sub appearances, perhaps replacing Scott and starting for our 2 or 3 Cup games;)
 
Red Sky said:
Sounds a bit lightweight to me that. Prime Cook could be an option, but he still lacks the physical attributes of Lerma. More often than not these days he tends to give away possession and free kicks in dangerous positions without looking like winning the ball cleanly.

Kilkenny deserves to be given a run but with a different foil IMO.
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I do see Gav as more of a playmaker, so yes, hopefully one of the new signings would be a more defensively-minded midfielder who can be there to mop up the damage from the occasional mistake which will inevitably be made as we try to play it forwards. Sounds good to me.

As MB1980 says, signing Scott would make Kilkenny's role much more of a peripheral one ( once again ! ) but if we don't sign Scott, which could easily happen, then I definitely think that Kilkenny could cement a spot as an attack-minded midfielder in an AI team, if given sufficient time, coaching and opportunities.
 
MB1980 said:
yeah that's the issue isn't it. Plus if we sign Scott I'd imagine that'd push kilkenny further down as although Scott is probably a little more attack minded, they'd likely jostle for similar central role in the formation. Kilkenny surely woukd have to play in kind of Rothwell cm role/deep lying play maker, but doesn't appear tough/resolute enough defensively to play as lone deeper player as Cook did on Saturday. (Which i doubt it is).. seems disastrous idea if that's the plan, but who knows.

That said, I doubt the plan is to start Kilkenny if he isn't loaned out, bit get sub appearances, perhaps replacing Scott and starting for our 2 or 3 Cup games;)
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I wouldn't necessarily think that signing Scott would push Kilkenny further down, although this is a possibility (depending on Iraola and the backroom team). It could be the extra motivation he needs for his development if he is showing more than Scott in training. Plus knowing our injury record, it's good to have options there at this stage of the season.

I would even be happier with Kilkenny in the deeper role than Cook because he's just so comfortable in possession. I know we're talking about Billing going here but I think they would work well as a duo.
 
thegazzyb said:
I do see Gav as more of a playmaker, so yes, hopefully one of the new signings would be a more defensively-minded midfielder who can be there to mop up the damage from the occasional mistake which will inevitably be made as we try to play it forwards. Sounds good to me.

As MB1980 says, signing Scott would make Kilkenny's role much more of a peripheral one ( once again ! ) but if we don't sign Scott, which could easily happen, then I definitely think that Kilkenny could cement a spot as an attack-minded midfielder in an AI team, if given sufficient time, coaching and opportunities.
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Agree. Kilkenny seems to have fantastic vision, technical ability and forward searching creativity side, along with keeping things sinple/ball moving.

If he's bedded into a formation/style of team that suits him (which may very well be the case with AI apparent brave tactical prferences) I think he may well be an absolute gem of a player... probably the best player to come through our youth system perhaps? Currently Danny ings?
 
Red Sky said:
I wouldn't necessarily think that signing Scott would push Kilkenny further down, although this is a possibility (depending on Iraola and the backroom team). It could be the extra motivation he needs for his development if he is showing more than Scott in training. Plus knowing our injury record, it's good to have options there at this stage of the season.

I would even be happier with Kilkenny in the deeper role than Cook because he's just so comfortable in possession. I know we're talking about Billing going here but I think they would work well as a duo.
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Yes as under howe with surman and arter/o kane yiu don't have to have a proper tough cdm, as 2 of Cook, Scott, kilkenny coukd be fine for attack minded formation/style, and constant pressing from everyone when not in possession.almost a safety in numbers thing, where if everyone us pressing, you may not need dedicated hard tackling, but limited dmc like lerma.

Higher risk of course, but can be exciting Bd work well if implemented properly.

You them have the advabtage/luxury of every midfielder being capable of creating chances, so less likely get nil nils, 1 nils etc and could get more hammerings, bit like under howe in early pl years.
 
Think if we start the season with a centre midfield selection of Cook, Kilkenny, Rothwell and Traore we are gonna be in quite a bit of trouble. Even bedding in new arrivals to an integral part of the team at this point is going to take quite some time, and our run of games from the start isn’t going to be too accommodating for that.
Right, that’s the doom and gloom done for the day….
 
Almost every time I see Killkenny I think there's a hell of a player in there somewhere. How many pre-seasons over the years have we remarked on his ability? And then that stint in the Championship where everything he touched was gold.

Yet (by all accounts) he flopped at Stoke in the Championship and then didn't exactly light up Charlton in League One either. I don't know what went wrong there, I fully expected him to monster both and come back to compete for a PL place here.

Stoke I guess Gav's cultured touch wasn't quite their cup of tea! But he has or should have sufficient ability to be impressing at any lower level.

I'd love to see Killkenny blossom, but I don't think we're in a position to be confident of chucking him in here. Maybe it's what he needs, but maybe it would crush him.
 
Dunno what the question was but for sure Kilkenny and Cook are NOT the answer!
Billing for me is important to us and we should do all we can to keep him…our midfield is looking light with Traore, Rothwell and Cook…Scott would be a good addition along with another ‘anchorman’ type like…
I don’t understand why we rate players and then turn against them if want to see how they want to shape their futures and make best decisions for their careers?
 
northstandmark said:
Almost every time I see Killkenny I think there's a hell of a player in there somewhere. How many pre-seasons over the years have we remarked on his ability? And then that stint in the Championship where everything he touched was gold.

Yet (by all accounts) he flopped at Stoke in the Championship and then didn't exactly light up Charlton in League One either. I don't know what went wrong there, I fully expected him to monster both and come back to compete for a PL place here.

Stoke I guess Gav's cultured touch wasn't quite their cup of tea! But he has or should have sufficient ability to be impressing at any lower level.

I'd love to see Killkenny blossom, but I don't think we're in a position to be confident of chucking him in here. Maybe it's what he needs, but maybe it would crush him.
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Remember seeing him in the friendly against Lyon and thinking that he would definitely be starting in the future. Is a bit odd it hasn’t worked out so far, even at the lower levels.
 
Garbo said:
Dunno what the question was but for sure Kilkenny and Cook are NOT the answer!
Billing for me is important to us and we should do all we can to keep him…our midfield is looking light with Traore, Rothwell and Cook…Scott would be a good addition along with another ‘anchorman’ type like…
I don’t understand why we rate players and then turn against them if want to see how they want to shape their futures and make best decisions for their careers?
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As others have mentioned, wouldn't surprise me to see billing being considered less integral part of AI plans, contract expiring or not.

He's a weird, unorthodox, but good player and if the team isn't setup in a certain way could easily find himself being marginalised/ineffective and out of favour.

Probably the reason he's barely featured or even called up by Denmark... Brentford midfield monopoly aside.

He could probably command a very lucrative move to nu wave Saudi.
 
MB1980 said:
yeah that's the issue isn't it. Plus if we sign Scott I'd imagine that'd push kilkenny further down as although Scott is probably a little more attack minded, they'd likely jostle for similar central role in the formation. Kilkenny surely woukd have to play in kind of Rothwell cm role/deep lying play maker, but doesn't appear tough/resolute enough defensively to play as lone deeper player as Cook did on Saturday. (Which i doubt it is).. seems disastrous idea if that's the plan, but who knows.

That said, I doubt the plan is to start Kilkenny if he isn't loaned out, bit get sub appearances, perhaps replacing Scott and starting for our 2 or 3 Cup games;)
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I think with 5 subs players like Kilkenny are likely to get more opportunities, especially with what we're told is AIs high pressing all action style of play so it sounds like we'll need plenty of wingers and midfielders.
 
Johnny Comelately said:
I think with 5 subs players like Kilkenny are likely to get more opportunities, especially with what we're told is AIs high pressing all action style of play so it sounds like we'll need plenty of wingers and midfielders.
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Exactly. Ive always considered wingers, folliwes by strikers, to be the main position you want several strong options with a bitvof variation of strong attributes to change/open up games, without totally disrupting core style/formation that can be too disruptive.

Brooks/traore style clever/technical and agile players, along with more pace orientated wingers like kluivert- particularly useful later in games as the opposition tires. Then you have useful but more limited options like Christie, who although may not posess natural pl level ability, his unusually high workrate, determination for a winger makes him a very useful alternative option for us in certain scenarios.

I'm not sure how to describe outtara, but he Seems to have that golden knack of popping up from nowhere and scoring In tight situations, creating something for others despite not being particularly quick or that great technically/dribbling compared to others. Looks a bit awkward/indecisive to me for a 20 mill plus winger, buy clearly a decent player.

I know 5 subs has critics, as some say favours strong squads more, but I like the way it gives more chance for younger, fringe platers to gain experience where appropriate.
 
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