Recruitment war- Parker vs Demin

If we finish bottom and are feature the least amount of times the contract allows by Sky (which we will be), then we should be getting about £100m in tv money this season.

Add to that ticket, sponsorship, shop and any other income the club can make. We're probably looking at £110-115m for this season (at a guess, can't be bothered to go check the old accounts).

The wage bill is going to be £60m+, based on what went before.

£15m for the training ground.

Then there will be the transfer liabilities due from last season and from our last season in the PL (Stacey, Kelly and Billing). This also raises an interesting question about our approach.

We got burned by the last relegation and do the club want take the same approach and just assume we'll have the PL income available for the length of the player contracts or do they want to put money aside for those payments from this year when they know they have the money?

Given the likelihood of relegation, the sensible thing to do would be the latter even if it curtails our spending opportunities this season. Given the more pragmatic approach, that wouldn't be a surprise to see. No idea if that's what we'll do.

In that scenario, allowing for the purchases already made this window, we're already close to spending the season's income.

If the strategy is to be a yo-yo club then more spending power in the Championship is more valuable than one extra player in the PL so doing that makes sense.

Meanwhile, the £200m is split over multiple seasons and the lionshare will be needed to cover wages this season and the following ones if/when we go down.

I still think they'll be at least one arrival before the window closes but don't think burning through £50m would do us much good long term. I know you weren't advocating a large outlay, but just pointing out that there isn't actually a huge amount of wiggle room in that number, unless we manage to make a big sale if/when we go down.
 
kirsikka said:
If we finish bottom and are feature the least amount of times the contract allows by Sky (which we will be), then we should be getting about £100m in tv money this season.

Add to that ticket, sponsorship, shop and any other income the club can make. We're probably looking at £110-115m for this season (at a guess, can't be bothered to go check the old accounts).

The wage bill is going to be £60m+, based on what went before.


£15m for the training ground.

Then there will be the transfer liabilities due from last season and from our last season in the PL (Stacey, Kelly and Billing). This also raises an interesting question about our approach.

We got burned by the last relegation and do the club want take the same approach and just assume we'll have the PL income available for the length of the player contracts or do they want to put money aside for those payments from this year when they know they have the money?

Given the likelihood of relegation, the sensible thing to do would be the latter even if it curtails our spending opportunities this season. Given the more pragmatic approach, that wouldn't be a surprise to see. No idea if that's what we'll do.

In that scenario, allowing for the purchases already made this window, we're already close to spending the season's income.

If the strategy is to be a yo-yo club then more spending power in the Championship is more valuable than one extra player in the PL so doing that makes sense.

Meanwhile, the £200m is split over multiple seasons and the lionshare will be needed to cover wages this season and the following ones if/when we go down.

I still think they'll be at least one arrival before the window closes but don't think burning through £50m would do us much good long term. I know you weren't advocating a large outlay, but just pointing out that there isn't actually a huge amount of wiggle room in that number, unless we manage to make a big sale if/when we go down.
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I do think spending power in the championship is more important for a club our size than blowing millions in the premier league. Being a yo-yo club but having a new training ground built is okay with me .
 
Neil Dawson said:
No this season and parachute payments secures a minimum of this.
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gotcha so in theory we have 100m each season let's say so with wages etc and player brought we would of hit that money already, and that's without paying max back anything potentionally so unless max is diving into his pockets again we really don't have alot to spend?
with that in mind we need the loan market to be kind to us but with what Parker been saying I'm not sure managers will be lining up to send us players it might set them back
 
Think we would be happy with a couple of season loans would work, and get scotty to keep squad together and coach the players and make them better and keep his mouth shut
 
Neil Dawson said:
Not a problem with that, no. Training ground is 15m and we are guaranteed well over 200m so would expect more to be spent before Thurs and assume it will.

If your plan is to recruit sensibly and invest modestly then we have no active background in doing this as our scatter gun approach to last years signings proved. Dembele a good case in point, 26 never played in PL clearly judged as not able to. We’d have been better off signing a Bowler. Just as we didn’t go for Toney when we had the opportunity. Tavernier is a good signing that fits that example but that’s it.

Bring in 21 year olds deemed ready to grow into the PL and have a coach who is proven to develop young talent rather than one that is proven to sound off at boards when he doesn’t get huge amounts of cash for finished articles. Then if you fail you go again the following year with more experience.

All the different approaches have a sound logic. As does the one you articulate. You have to have a strategy of signings and the manager that match your strategy, be that spend big on megastars, spend medium on experience or spend little on potential. We don’t sign the right players or have the right manager (or d***head as you call him) to fit the strategy you describe. That’s what I keep trying to say… and where does strategic direction in an organisation come from?

Do you think the correct players and manager are in place for the strategy you describe?
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They signed players on the cheap to get promoted and appear to be trying to spend modestly whilst there. I'd like to see Dembele get a go but it looks like he'll be sold at a profit if not. I doubt we'll lose any money on any of them so what's the problem.

They way you say £200 is available is just silly. Training ground was quoted as £30m last time I heard too.
 
rgb said:
If we do a comparison, with the game versus Villa in '15 and the game versus Villa in '22, I would suggest the players we have in position now, are overall, slightly better.

Boruc
Francis Elphick Cook Daniels
Ritchie Surman Gosling Ritchie
Wilson King

Travers
Lerma Mepham Kelly
Smith Zemura
Billing Pearson
Moore Solanke

Putting aside the formations, I would posit, that Travers, Kelly, Smith, Zemura, Billing and Solanke are slightly better, than Boruc, Francis, Cook, Daniels, Gosling and King.

I'm giving an opinion, not stating a fact.

I think - I don't know - that the team in 2015, were more a team, than what we have now. That, I think, is down to Howe.[/QUOTE
rgb said:
If we do a comparison, with the game versus Villa in '15 and the game versus Villa in '22, I would suggest the players we have in position now, are overall, slightly better.

Boruc
Francis Elphick Cook Daniels
Ritchie Surman Gosling Ritchie
Wilson King

Travers
Lerma Mepham Kelly
Smith Zemura
Billing Pearson
Moore Solanke

Putting aside the formations, I would posit, that Travers, Kelly, Smith, Zemura, Billing and Solanke are slightly better, than Boruc, Francis, Cook, Daniels, Gosling and King.

I'm giving an opinion, not stating a fact.

I think - I don't know - that the team in 2015, were more a team, than what we have now. That, I think, is down to Howe.
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Ritchie was busy!
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Neil Dawson said:
No because I don’t know. Not many proven Pl managers go to Scotland and I assume his agent was working on stuff they knew would become available through consortium purchases down Souh so I am imagining. Maybe he didn’t like the weather or the poor diet. Or maybe like Del says it’s because he couldn’t get a member of personnel to go despite not wanting that member of personnel in his next role a few months later.
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Maybe EH didnt fancy the fire bombing of the Chairmans car...maybe Hughes liked it even less and the option with EH was Black (body) Bags United and maybe morally he didnt fancy that either
 
SlowDownDerek said:
They signed players on the cheap to get promoted and appear to be trying to spend modestly whilst there. I'd like to see Dembele get a go but it looks like he'll be sold at a profit if not. I doubt we'll lose any money on any of them so what's the problem.

They way you say £200 is available is just silly. Training ground was quoted as £30m last time I heard too.
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£35m I think was the original quoted amount (you'd imagine it's shot up since then), but that was for the whole project. We're only doing phase one at the moment which is for the academy players.

If we somehow scrape survival this year, I guess the idea would be that next season we do phase two.
 
kirsikka said:
£35m I think was the original quoted amount (you'd imagine it's shot up since then), but that was for the whole project. We're only doing phase one at the moment which is for the academy players.

If we somehow scrape survival this year, I guess the idea would be that next season we do phase two.
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Yes I think the initial plan was around 12m
 
SlowDownDerek said:
This is quite disrespectful to Howe tbh. As if he's going to let the PR team of the club speak for him. Funny how Parker's words are gospel when you think they support your argument, a guy that can barely put a sentence together, yet Howe the most eloquent manager we've had can't speak for himself.

Edit: Rob will be along in a minute to say how we had much more eloquent managers in the olden days. Bradbury, O'Driscoll, Redknapp and the like.
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I would have, but I was out enjoying myself.

Actually I don't think we have had any manager more eloquent, but if its the 84th argument of the day you're looking for...
 
Neil Dawson said:
I don’t think anyone is saying he isn’t a proper footballing person but those stats don’t make an impressive director of football. Gazza had a more impressive playing career but I wouldn’t have him as a director of football.

I’m saying he isn’t recruiting sensibly and strategically and this may be because he is not a professional director of football. interesting that Eddie went for Dan Ashworth at Newcastle who hasn’t played at the level Hughes has but had done an incredible job at Brighton. He didn’t come back for Hughes.

The players in our squad we call PL players, Lerma, Kelly, Smith, Solanke were signed in Eddie’s time. Since he left our signings have been questionable and short term.

Laird, Cahill, Phillips, Cantwell, Davis, Marcondes, Dembele, Moore, Woodman, the other keeper that couldn’t kick straight and probably a few others I’ve forgotten last season and only Moore is expected to feature from the lot of them this season.

It’s just poor strategy: the North Korean bunch will cling to the fact it got us promoted and they weren’t meant to be signings for the future but that’s only applicable if you have a strategy to replace them which we didn’t and if the owner knew that which he didn’t. You then end up starting the worlds toughest league with one elite level Centre back. This is what Parker is whinging about (not in the right way). They also appointed a manager who needs a lot of money and had a track record of destroying morale when he doesn’t get it.

It’s abysmal. Amateur. And they pay themselves a fortune to deliver this crap.
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I'm quite happy being a North Korean if the opposite is just slagging off people like you do.

Eddie is god now to you, and thats presumably because he's not here. While he was here you spent time and energy slagging off his nepotism and his future prospects.
 
RobTrent said:
I'm quite happy being a North Korean if the opposite is just slagging off people like you do.

Eddie is god now to you, and thats presumably because he's not here. While he was here you spent time and energy slagging off his nepotism and his future prospects.
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There was loads I wrote that was brilliant about Eddie, go back and read the match reports over the years. To say otherwise is just plain untrue.

I worried it was all becoming a bit insular and same and we might get relegated without external influence that wasn’t from his friends and family circle and I thought it played into the rest of the leagues hands when he changed from attack to counter attack. I haven’t changed that opinion but it doesn’t take away his god like talents in getting us there.
 
RobTrent said:
I'm quite happy being a North Korean if the opposite is just slagging off people like you do.

Eddie is god now to you, and thats presumably because he's not here. While he was here you spent time and energy slagging off his nepotism and his future prospects.
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perfect summary
if big flecth ever leaves the coaching staff he'll become our best ever striker overnight
 
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