Shoddy and Tired

Toronto John said:
Still six games to prove that we can fix this.
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Sorry, John, that means 32 games in which we haven’t proven we can fix our established problems:

Can barely turn up away
Can’t really threaten the top 6
Can’t close out a game
Concede early too often

I’m really struggling to see an improvement over the last coiple of years. We’ve had bright moments, but too many unacceptable performances. If we don’t cut some of those out next season we’re in real trouble
 
adam0102 said:
My worry is that we don’t seem to have developed away from home to the B6

Look at Watford yesterday, Wolves a couple of times, Leicester more than once. Apart from Chelsea, when have we dominated and deserved to win against the big teams away??
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Agreed...not too often. We have had a couple of very decent games at Old Trafford, one good match at Anfield in the first season but not a strong point. Did ok at Man City this season to be fair as well.

I am more on about general games....we are very capable of poor games but so are fourteen other sides in this league. As Toronto John has mentioned, very fine margins have kept us from being seventh, so it does show most teams have it in them to be either world beaters or useless articles!
 
adam0102 said:
Sorry, John, that means 32 games in which we haven’t proven we can fix our established problems:

Can barely turn up away
Can’t really threaten the top 6
Can’t close out a game
Concede early too often

I’m really struggling to see an improvement over the last coiple of years. We’ve had bright moments, but too many unacceptable performances. If we don’t cut some of those out next season we’re in real trouble
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That last sentence....I have seen people saying the exact same thing every season since we came up to this level! I guess you say it because one day, you can say you told us so? :cool:
 
davygravy said:
That last sentence....I have seen people saying the exact same thing every season since we came up to this level! I guess you say it because one day, you can say you told us so? :cool:
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Not at all, i’ve been constantly positive and i’m still pinching myself we’re in this league. What worries me is that we’re still making some of the same mistakes we made one, two and three years ago
 
Topfarrier said:
You see i'm not missing the point Neil...he'd have been quite happy to have 'kept the same bloke for twenty years' .....it wasn't his 'need to constantly understand new trends' that made him bring in those coaches ....it was simply a necessity brought about by the previous coach leaving.
When you talk about the skill set of the number two's he employed i take it you mean McClaren and Queiroz and to a lesser extent Meulensteen who wasn't actually a no 2 ....all three of them are very good coaches tbf..piss poor managers as it turned out but good coaches nonetheless....the rest of Ferguson's deputies were either people he played with or were promoted from the ranks......:eek:
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It’s simple. He may well have kept the same bloke for twenty years, I doubt it but we will never know. When faced with the fact he couldn’t he went and recruited very different talents and admitted freely that they were to support his shortcomings, to adapt his style and to learn from.

In showing this appetite to adapt and learn He stayed at the top.

If I was a manager I would look to that for inspiration. Do you want to be a Mark Hughes taking Bowen everywhere with you or an Alex Ferguson learning off young talent from abroad?
 
I get what Neil is saying,but in reality who are we going to attract that Eddie could learn from as a number two.
He has got the foreign guy in as a coach don't forget,but not sure what that has bought to the team?
I actually think we are three or four players short of a really good squad now,I think all the signings this season have strengthened us,but injuries in key areas have crippled us.
This summer we need two central midfielders who can go straight into the side with no bedding in period.
We need a right back to challenge Smith and Franno,and yet another left back.
My worry with Howe is that he cannot seem to motivate the team well enough,the players don't look like they will run through walls for him.
Too many tepid performances and players under performing.
 
Neil Dawson said:
It’s simple. He may well have kept the same bloke for twenty years, I doubt it but we will never know. When faced with the fact he couldn’t he went and recruited very different talents and admitted freely that they were to support his shortcomings, to adapt his style and to learn from.

In showing this appetite to adapt and learn He stayed at the top.

If I was a manager I would look to that for inspiration. Do you want to be a Mark Hughes taking Bowen everywhere with you or an Alex Ferguson learning off young talent from abroad?
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...or mike phelan?!
 
Neil Dawson said:
It’s simple. He may well have kept the same bloke for twenty years, I doubt it but we will never know. When faced with the fact he couldn’t he went and recruited very different talents and admitted freely that they were to support his shortcomings, to adapt his style and to learn from.

In showing this appetite to adapt and learn He stayed at the top.

If I was a manager I would look to that for inspiration. Do you want to be a Mark Hughes taking Bowen everywhere with you or an Alex Ferguson learning off young talent from abroad?
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Any thoughts Neil?
 
Pointless to comparing to Ferguson as he has been the outstanding manager in the prem but had the advantage of a huge budget plus inherited a rare crop of outstanding youngsters. Even then lots of criticism that he didn’t do better in Europe
 
davygravy said:
Agreed...not too often. We have had a couple of very decent games at Old Trafford, one good match at Anfield in the first season but not a strong point. Did ok at Man City this season to be fair as well.

I am more on about general games....we are very capable of poor games but so are fourteen other sides in this league. As Toronto John has mentioned, very fine margins have kept us from being seventh, so it does show most teams have it in them to be either world beaters or useless articles!
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We got a draw at Liverpool in our second season.
 
Ferguson a bully of sorts ...and more bent in the transfer market than Harry! How could he fail with those attributes and the Cosmo budget....come on, get on the dancefloor!
 
adam0102 said:
Sorry, John, that means 32 games in which we haven’t proven we can fix our established problems:

Can barely turn up away
Can’t really threaten the top 6
Can’t close out a game
Concede early too often

I’m really struggling to see an improvement over the last coiple of years. We’ve had bright moments, but too many unacceptable performances. If we don’t cut some of those out next season we’re in real trouble
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I hear you, Adam, but we were pretty darn good in the first 10 games. I know, soft schedule could be argued but we're running into those same teams now and we just look "off". I don't feel like it's talent, but it does seem like tactics and attitude. Maybe leadership, possibly miss Steve Cook more than we reckon. I saw the comments on the other thread that Leicester is much more talented than us, but I don't quite buy that. I was looking forward to the final nine games to see how we measure up with teams that we should deem beatable. So far, not so good, but as I said, if we can finish strong in those last six games, and address the four points that you make above, that will make me feel a lot better.
 
Neil Dawson said:
I didn’t mean replace JT. I meant leave him as a first team coach but go get a number 2 who has experience of different formations and plans to play between the lines.

Alex Ferguson stayed at the top by adapting constantly bringing in new right hand men constantly who understood new trends.
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A bit like us when Hugo Faria was appointed first-team assistant coach in November 2018.
 
RobTrent said:
I'm assuming from Neils lack of response to my three prompts that Sir Alex is the only example?
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Rob. I haven’t answered you because I don’t know and have never claimed it’s widespread or always necessary. A quick google search shows other top managers have historically brought in new assistants but if I quote any of them TopFarrier will only be along to tell us their predecessor left to manage Dukla Prague leaving the manager with no choice.

We are in danger of drowning in semantics here. My simple view is Eddie needs help migrating away from 4-4-2. We know he wants to because he keeps trying it but ends up with a back five and unsure of what to do with King and then after a couple of defeats goes back to his comfort zone.

In any walk of life top leaders buy that expertise in. We know that the most successful manager in English football did it (for whatever reason). We know we need new ideas. Why not try it?

Also it won’t happen as long as I’ve got a hole in my butt so for many reasons I’m wishing I never brought it up :grinning:
 
Neil Dawson said:
Rob. I haven’t answered you because I don’t know and have never claimed it’s widespread or always necessary. A quick google search shows other top managers have historically brought in new assistants but if I quote any of them TopFarrier will only be along to tell us their predecessor left to manage Dukla Prague leaving the manager with no choice.

We are in danger of drowning in semantics here. My simple view is Eddie needs help migrating away from 4-4-2. We know he wants to because he keeps trying it but ends up with a back five and unsure of what to do with King and then after a couple of defeats goes back to his comfort zone.

In any walk of life top leaders buy that expertise in. We know that the most successful manager in English football did it (for whatever reason). We know we need new ideas. Why not try it?

Also it won’t happen as long as I’ve got a hole in my butt so for many reasons I’m wishing I never brought it up :grinning:
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I do love the way you counter questions about your views as "drowning in semantics". ;-)
 
Neil Dawson said:
He is there on a low wage to blend in Rico and Lermas language difficulties. If you think he is doing tactics think again.
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I don't claim to know why he is there Neil, but I assume that someone who holds the UEFA A coaching license probably knows something about football tactics as well as speaking foreign languages.
 
Agree with Neil that the rigidity and predictability of the 4-4-1-1 is holding us back, it has served us very well of course but it is time we adapted to a more fluid system. We have been largely worked out, stop us from countering with the pace of king and Fraser and you nullify our threat massively.
 
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