Structadene

NornIron said:
I do like some of the undertones here.

For years we begged for a white knight. We finally got one and now it’s all “yeah he’s ok but we’d quite like a whitier knightier one please”.
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...thing is we have now tasted the highlife of The PL and find that we may be out of our depth in terms of the off field structure, I bet even Max must be shifting awkwardly in his seat at the sort of finance that is required to sustain the effort? I do not envy the club's custodians at some of the risks that they are facing...It is apparent that those teams at the top have had massive and obscene amounts of money poured into their coffers...and when you think that Man City are backed by a country virtually!
 
As much as I want a new stadium, I want a legacy from this period more.

People need to be more aware of the game scenario we are in and who we are.

We came from nothing, owning no assets except a few players in contract. Through over achievement in a very short period we hit the big time and then we faced a crossroads.

Do we take the money and run a la Blackpool, Burnley, Reading, Newcastle etc and accept relegation?

If we do, do we then sit on the money a la Blackpool, Burnley, Charlton, Wigan and hope we can get back up again in our lifetime but at least the club (or owner has money in the bank) and be similar to a multitude of clubs in the 3 divisions below us that have both not and have spent vast sums of money?

Or we can spend the money on infrastructure and become like Darlington, MK Dons and ply the lower divisions with a 75% empty stadium and a large commitment/noose around our neck?

The other option is do what we have done, invest money in players to keep us in the Premier League and further cash rewards for staying there. Not only that, but we have spent money on players that are young, with promise and a good resale value if we were to ever go down we can cash them in and still be financially stable - best of both worlds.

Not only that, we are investing in land and training facilities are assets.

Having said all of that, we are now here for a 4th season and well on our way for a 5th, we have players worth £40m+ and it is now time to seriously look at upgrading the stadium.

The sums involved are huge and the returns are small (financially) so apart from fan happiness and selling the club to the next generation of fans (and possibly keeping Eddie) the need for a new stadium is not as urgent as improving the team.

We all know that buying back Dean Court and developing is the most sensible but until Structradene play ball, it is a game of brinkmanship and a lot of work is going on behind the scenes for both scenarios. The board is not stupid or naive, so a bit of trust and patience is needed.

Remember the saying "be careful what you wish for, it may just come true".
 
...without doubt IF we find ourselves staying in The PL then a new stadium will be a MUST in order to attract top managers,players and increase our fanbase for the future.

Then the novelty of being in The PL (which I believe has already gone!) brings us into line of the harsh realities of doing what is required to maintain our presence!
 
Garbo said:
...without doubt IF we find ourselves staying in The PL then a new stadium will be a MUST in order to attract top managers,players and increase our fanbase for the future.

Then the novelty of being in The PL (which I believe has already gone!) brings us into line of the harsh realities of doing what is required to maintain our presence!
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Completely agree with this, we just need to remember that if it is a choice of a stadium or players to keep us here, players is the priority.

It's not just us, look at Arsenal since they build a new stadium, they had to cut their cloth accordingly. I don't think it was any coincidence that Spurs are building a new stadium and didn't sign anyone in the summer, every club is affected by it at some point.
 
...agree...but it is a no brainer in the long term, that the club will need to get the balance right between players and stadium expenditure. Another reason to consider looking at this whilst Eddie Howe is our manager? We would be trusting to luck more if he wasn't in charge of the squad?
 
Herbs said:
As much as I want a new stadium, I want a legacy from this period more.

People need to be more aware of the game scenario we are in and who we are.

We came from nothing, owning no assets except a few players in contract. Through over achievement in a very short period we hit the big time and then we faced a crossroads.

Do we take the money and run a la Blackpool, Burnley, Reading, Newcastle etc and accept relegation?

If we do, do we then sit on the money a la Blackpool, Burnley, Charlton, Wigan and hope we can get back up again in our lifetime but at least the club (or owner has money in the bank) and be similar to a multitude of clubs in the 3 divisions below us that have both not and have spent vast sums of money?

Or we can spend the money on infrastructure and become like Darlington, MK Dons and ply the lower divisions with a 75% empty stadium and a large commitment/noose around our neck?

The other option is do what we have done, invest money in players to keep us in the Premier League and further cash rewards for staying there. Not only that, but we have spent money on players that are young, with promise and a good resale value if we were to ever go down we can cash them in and still be financially stable - best of both worlds.

Not only that, we are investing in land and training facilities are assets.

Having said all of that, we are now here for a 4th season and well on our way for a 5th, we have players worth £40m+ and it is now time to seriously look at upgrading the stadium.

The sums involved are huge and the returns are small (financially) so apart from fan happiness and selling the club to the next generation of fans (and possibly keeping Eddie) the need for a new stadium is not as urgent as improving the team.

We all know that buying back Dean Court and developing is the most sensible but until Structradene play ball, it is a game of brinkmanship and a lot of work is going on behind the scenes for both scenarios. The board is not stupid or naive, so a bit of trust and patience is needed.

Remember the saying "be careful what you wish for, it may just come true".
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Spot on - an intelligent sensible post
 
Herbs said:
Exactly, it's a balancing act
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Agree, but there's not much evidence of that so far.
Max has done what he's had to do to get us into the premier league, nothing more. Relative peanuts considering the money we've had come into our club since we got in this league. From memory, I think it was eddie mitchell that first raised idea of our present training facility, if not what's the betting we would still be training at canford magna school. It remains to be seen if he really wants to take our club forward but it needs to happen sooner rather than later.
 
Its an odd one all right. Most businesses want to grow, the issue most of us have is we can't see it happening before our eyes in a structural / crowd / capacity sense and therein lies the problem.

The growth and value of the club has happened on the pitch. If we were to look at the value of the squad now compared to our first year in the PL then it may well cushion the blow in relation to wondering where all this money is going.

The issue is at what point do you capitalise on that value on the pitch without selling players (something we haven't really done) and when you do where does that funding go ? On more players ?.

Max has done a great job as we all know but its becoming clear that to fund anything off the pitch we may well have to sell the crown jewels and how palatable is that ? If certain players are going to move on (and with all the will in the world we can't really stop them) then as said above how do you get that balance right.

To me I would say a solution is to go back to the plans for the South Stand / corners filled in. I think Hearts have just completed a new main stand (with a much larger capacity / hospitality etc) for £15 million (original cost £11 million). Our plans were for something far simpler than that.
 
red_house said:
Its an odd one all right. Most businesses want to grow, the issue most of us have is we can't see it happening before our eyes in a structural / crowd / capacity sense and therein lies the problem.

The growth and value of the club has happened on the pitch. If we were to look at the value of the squad now compared to our first year in the PL then it may well cushion the blow in relation to wondering where all this money is going.

The issue is at what point do you capitalise on that value on the pitch without selling players (something we haven't really done) and when you do where does that funding go ? On more players ?.

Max has done a great job as we all know but its becoming clear that to fund anything off the pitch we may well have to sell the crown jewels and how palatable is that ? If certain players are going to move on (and with all the will in the world we can't really stop them) then as said above how do you get that balance right.

To me I would say a solution is to go back to the plans for the South Stand / corners filled in. I think Hearts have just completed a new main stand (with a much larger capacity / hospitality etc) for £15 million (original cost £11 million). Our plans were for something far simpler than that.
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Because we cannot do that sensibly.

IF we touch the South End, our rent increases - we will literally be spending money to make a loss. In addition, it will probably increase the asking price of buying the ground back because we have shown our hand and invested in it.

Doing nothing is the only option IF we are looking to buy back at some point. As I said in my previous post, brinkmanship.
 
Herbs said:
Because we cannot do that sensibly.

IF we touch the South End, our rent increases - we will literally be spending money to make a loss. In addition, it will probably increase the asking price of buying the ground back because we have shown our hand and invested in it.

Doing nothing is the only option IF we are looking to buy back at some point. As I said in my previous post, brinkmanship.
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It has been said on here numerous times that the rent doesn't increase/ they cant increase it, its not even on their land ( by SDD who I believe knows his stuff )

Unless of course you know something different , I'm not an expert in the field.

What use is the land to SD after the lease expires , very little with a 4500 seater stand overlooking it ;)
 
Herbs said:
As much as I want a new stadium, I want a legacy from this period more.

People need to be more aware of the game scenario we are in and who we are.

We came from nothing, owning no assets except a few players in contract. Through over achievement in a very short period we hit the big time and then we faced a crossroads.

Do we take the money and run a la Blackpool, Burnley, Reading, Newcastle etc and accept relegation?

If we do, do we then sit on the money a la Blackpool, Burnley, Charlton, Wigan and hope we can get back up again in our lifetime but at least the club (or owner has money in the bank) and be similar to a multitude of clubs in the 3 divisions below us that have both not and have spent vast sums of money?

Or we can spend the money on infrastructure and become like Darlington, MK Dons and ply the lower divisions with a 75% empty stadium and a large commitment/noose around our neck?

The other option is do what we have done, invest money in players to keep us in the Premier League and further cash rewards for staying there. Not only that, but we have spent money on players that are young, with promise and a good resale value if we were to ever go down we can cash them in and still be financially stable - best of both worlds.

Not only that, we are investing in land and training facilities are assets.

Having said all of that, we are now here for a 4th season and well on our way for a 5th, we have players worth £40m+ and it is now time to seriously look at upgrading the stadium.

The sums involved are huge and the returns are small (financially) so apart from fan happiness and selling the club to the next generation of fans (and possibly keeping Eddie) the need for a new stadium is not as urgent as improving the team.

We all know that buying back Dean Court and developing is the most sensible but until Structradene play ball, it is a game of brinkmanship and a lot of work is going on behind the scenes for both scenarios. The board is not stupid or naive, so a bit of trust and patience is needed.

Remember the saying "be careful what you wish for, it may just come true".
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Hi Herbs, good post - but your bit about '.. and a lot of work is going on behind the scenes for both scenarios. The board is not stupid or naive, so a bit of trust and patience is needed. '

Is a lot of work going on behind the scenes? Of course they won't tell US that but even so we haven't any indication as to what is happening. Even the new training ground would be a great step forward and I think something that would help to retain the services of Eddie and Jason for a bit longer.
 
red_house said:
It has been said on here numerous times that the rent doesn't increase/ they cant increase it, its not even on their land ( by SDD who I believe knows his stuff )
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That's true with regards rent, but making a commitment to the location hardens SD bargaining positioning with regards to future purchase

red_house said:
What use is the land to SD after the lease expires , very little with a 4500 seater stand overlooking it ;)
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It can be housing, the land was owned by the club and not subject to Five Parks Act, also a precedent has been set with Thistlebarrow Road so it certainly has some intrinsic value. I believe that the club would donate that land to the council in return for the stadium land to satisfy the rules in the Parks act around redistribution of parks land. I assume something like the stadium land is 30% for public use so they need only donate back 70% of the footprint which would be the land they currently own and the SD land. At least I think that legally that would be a viable interpretation

edit: of course wiggle the numbers, I'm just giving it as an example of the principle they could use
 
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TCherry said:
Hi Herbs, good post - but your bit about '.. and a lot of work is going on behind the scenes for both scenarios. The board is not stupid or naive, so a bit of trust and patience is needed. '

Is a lot of work going on behind the scenes?
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I cannot say for definite but from what I have seen since they have been involved with the club and the results they have got, there is nothing to suggest they are sat twiddling their thumbs.

As much as we all want to be kept in the loop and feel as if it is our club, by showing their hand and keeping us abreast of every plan and step, it would be counter productive and could cost us a lot of money.

have faith. :)
 
Herbs said:
Because we cannot do that sensibly.

IF we touch the South End, our rent increases - we will literally be spending money to make a loss. In addition, it will probably increase the asking price of buying the ground back because we have shown our hand and invested in it.
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I may be being thick here but how can the rent increase on a part of the ground/stadium that the club owns?
 
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