Joe Rothwell

[KingKieffer]

An upgrade on Jeff? Not sure that’s correct!

He is a creative upgrade for sure. He had better defensive numbers last season too but as Neil says this may not translate next season in the PL.

 

[Sleepy Cherry]

I like Lerma. He’s a good hard working pro, has his limitations but makes up for them with his work rate and adaptability. The issue with him is his lack of creativity, which just isn’t his game. When we have just signed a player who is renowned for his creativity and also outperformed Lerma’s defensive numbers last season in the same division, it’s hard not to see him as an upgrade surely? Doesn’t mean Jeff is a bad player, just that the evidence would suggest that Rothwell is a better one.

Hopefully they can spur each other on to be even better.

 

[CherryBare]

Firstly, there is no need to refer to me as Waz, thank you. Secondly, you do make a good point in fairness, the game is a lot different at the top level and it could be that Lerma is better placed to shine with what he offers, so yes you are right to bring me up in that misplaced comment. Having said that, who’s to say that Rothwell won’t be more suited to the PL with perhaps more time and space in the ball.

Well Jeff's also a known quantity in the Premier league given he's already played there, and we know he can perform he's played 60+ games there.

 

[Sleepy Cherry]

From what I've read Rothwell is pretty versatile in midfield. He can play deeper or as what we might term a number 8. Lerma can play in a more advanced role too, but my guess is he'll play further forward a lot of the time with Jeff deeper.

 

[billythekid]

As the saying goes, ‘the proof is in the pudding’.

 

[wellsworld]

As they say ‘ the proof is in the pudding’.

charming!

 

[charlian]

Outperformed Lerma and billing both defensively and creatively last season according to the athletic, should certainly be an upgrade on Lerma.

sorry, I can't buy that! Kieffer has not have enough games to rate him. He is a giant of a man and has scored goals and if his goals to minutes on the pitch is calculated he scores something like a goal every 20 minutes, and I can't knock that....I hope he can start in some Prem games!.
I guess I should say King SP is getting the best out of him.
UTC

 

[afcblady]

My main worry about Lerma in the premier league is that he seems to be a marked man by the referees, I’ll never forget the way Grealish got him booked when he flung himself to the ground.

 

[Sorry Roger]

My main worry about Lerma in the premier league is that he seems to be a marked man by the referees, I’ll never forget the way Grealish got him booked when he flung himself to the ground.

My memory may be wrong, but didn’t Lerma do exactly the same to Son at home to Spurs?

 

[billythekid]

My main worry about Lerma in the premier league is that he seems to be a marked man by the referees, I’ll never forget the way Grealish got him booked when he flung himself to the ground.

His record in the Premier League re red cards is better than in the Championship.

Just over 60 appearances and 1 red card.

 

[Neil Dawson]

Firstly, there is no need to refer to me as Waz, thank you. Secondly, you do make a good point in fairness, the game is a lot different at the top level and it could be that Lerma is better placed to shine with what he offers, so yes you are right to bring me up in that misplaced comment. Having said that, who’s to say that Rothwell won’t be more suited to the PL with perhaps more time and space in the ball.

Rothwell may be better suited but the debate was would he be better than Lerma. To me evidence would dictate a full international who has played there and in La Liga before would be better than someone who is 27 and moved between Oxford and Blackburn in lower leagues. But like you say we won’t know properly until they play. Maybe we should have a charity sports bet and see if your alter ego is more honourable

 

[CherryBare]

Rothwell may be better suited but the debate was would he be better than Lerma. To me evidence would dictate a full international who has played there and in La Liga before would be better than someone who is 27 and moved between Oxford and Blackburn in lower leagues. But like you say we won’t know properly until they play. Maybe we should have a charity sports bet and see if your alter ego is more honourable

Oh god don't go there

 

[blandford_cherry]

Rothwell may be better suited but the debate was would he be better than Lerma. To me evidence would dictate a full international who has played there and in La Liga before would be better than someone who is 27 and moved between Oxford and Blackburn in lower leagues. But like you say we won’t know properly until they play. Maybe we should have a charity sports bet and see if your alter ego is more honourable

Please don’t speak sense.

 

[MB1980]

Outperformed Lerma and billing both defensively and creatively last season according to the athletic, should certainly be an upgrade on Lerma.

Obviously a bit of leeway has to be given with these stats, in terms of how the teams play, how the stats are actually calculated, but still, thats pretty impressive for sure to 'beat' 2 players of their calibre in 2 separate/different areas.

Not that I think we're definitely going down (but suspect we will be involved in the battle to some extent...), but he's also proven top quality at Champ level should we find ourselves back down and trying to come straight back.

 

[MB1980]

Waz… you don’t understand why people might be different a level up either negatively or positively? You can’t see that different attributes suit different leagues? How Stanislas was better a level up because of less physicality and more time or how Elphick was worse because of pace being more important?

Seriously?

Very few, if any, players are better in higher division, compared to lower level... Simply makes no logical sense at all.

I suspect Stan had fitness issues, and or Pugh and Ritchie were simply undroppable and never got injured iirc.

Elphicks issue wasn;t being purely down to being too slow as such. If his other attributes were top notch, he'd have remained. It was more that his lower than average pace was exposed as his other attributes weren;t good enough to compensate for the mediocre pace. Plenty of slower than average players do fine in the PL. Of course having more pace is better, but pace alone doesn;t define someones level. Plenty of rapid players in the lower leagues.

So yes, pace does play a part, but if someones very strong in other key areas, they'll be fine in the top flight.

 

[Neil Dawson]

Obviously a bit of leeway has to be given with these stats, in terms of how the teams play, how the stats are actually calculated, but still, thats pretty impressive for sure to 'beat' 2 players of their calibre in 2 separate/different areas.

Not that I think we're definitely going down (but suspect we will be involved in the battle to some extent...), but he's also proven top quality at Champ level should we find ourselves back down and trying to come straight back.

Exactly. Too much creedence given to stats. Steve Cook made more blocks than some of Man City’s and Liverpools finest defenders in our last PL stay. You could argue he was therefore better than them. Or you could argue it’s harder to make blocks playing in a team that spends most of their life camped in their opponents half scoring.

 

[Neil Dawson]

Very few, if any, players are better in higher division, compared to lower level... Simply makes no logical sense at all.

I suspect Stan had fitness issues, and or Pugh and Ritchie were simply undroppable and never got injured iirc.

Elphicks issue wasn;t being purely down to being too slow as such. If his other attributes were top notch, he'd have remained. It was more that his lower than average pace was exposed as his other attributes weren;t good enough to compensate for the mediocre pace. Plenty of slower than average players do fine in the PL. Of course having more pace is better, but pace alone doesn;t define someones level. Plenty of rapid players in the lower leagues.

So yes, pace does play a part, but if someones very strong in other key areas, they'll be fine in the top flight.

What slower than average defenders do well in the Prem?

 

[Sorry Roger]

What slower than average defenders do well in the Prem?

About half of them

 

[MB1980]

Exactly. Too much creedence given to stats. Steve Cook made more blocks than some of Man City’s and Liverpools finest defenders in our last PL stay. You could argue he was therefore better than them. Or you could argue it’s harder to make blocks playing in a team that spends most of their life camped in their opponents half scoring.

Yeah exactly. Also, could argue we have more quality in midfield, 'share' the play, where sides with a midfielder much better than the rest, may look to get the ball at his feet more often, or he could be deployed as 'box to box' midfielder role, getting more involved in the action, rather than told not track back all the time, or get forwards regularly. Have to look at whole picture, obviously depending how serious you're taking it all, rather than just having debate with mates down the pub .

 

[MB1980]

What slower than average defenders do well in the Prem?

A lot of CB's. seriously do you think they're all quick? They really aren;t, some are for sure.

Wingers and full backs yes, but then wingers/fullbacks are very quick at all levels. Its the rest of their game that determines the level they play at. Obviously if you're rapid, theres more leeway for positioning, or composure or whole host of other things not being as high - makes up for inadequacies to certain degree of course.

But Elphick was no slower than many who've played at the level for years, both now and over the past decade.

Off top of my head; Maguire, Coady, Burn, Dunk etc