Leicester - The Verdict

You will get labelled, by Del, DJ, Rob and a few others who think unless you have a FIFA qualification you are not allowed to comment.

The vast majority of people though will totally understand what you are saying.

We had a group of players with limited talents and a coaching team that understood how to work with limited talents through their own playing careers. They maxed it like nothing we had seen before.

The players have been replaced with what we all agree is the most talented group in our teams history. The coaches remain the same trying to squash everyone into the only two systems they know, no imagination, no playing between the lines, no ability to construct a defence as a tactical unit and huge swathes of players regressing at a rate of knots. Still we push King as a number ten, think Ibe might be the answer, bring Surman on, throw 25m at any crap Liverpool want to offload and move our only decent centre half out of position to bring in a guy that clearly,clearly was going to be taken apart by Vardy as he has no 5 yard pace.

Embarrassing I’m afraid.

You can't see the difference between your post and his can you?

His is a factual criticism of what he's seen with his eyes. Crap defence, poor forwards, poor shape, etc.

Yours has some of that but you insist on crowbarring your theories about things you've got no idea about into the mix.

It's tin pot punditry.
 
You can't see the difference between your post and his can you?

His is a factual criticism of what he's seen with his eyes. Crap defence, poor forwards, poor shape, etc.

Yours has some of that but you insist on crowbarring your theories about things you've got no idea about into the mix.

It's tin pot punditry.

Happy with our coaching and team set up Del?
 
Happy with our coaching and team set up Del?

I'm not happy about our shoddy defending. The difference is I've not diagnosed the reasons using clueless logic that I've just made up.

You've got no idea what the skills of the coaches are, what they are telling Eddie, what Eddie reckons. The buck stops with him and he needs to sort it out pronto.
 
I'm not happy about our shoddy defending. The difference is I've not diagnosed the reasons using clueless logic that I've just made up.

You've got no idea what the skills of the coaches are, what they are telling Eddie, what Eddie reckons. The buck stops with him and he needs to sort it out pronto.

Then where do you think the issue is ? Rather than just constantly sniping at Dawson opinion which he’s never suggested is fact , this is a forum for opinions .
For me , from where we come from to now is either a poor level of coaching by PL standards , a poor level of recruitment , or the funds at our disposal that mean we have peaked and will only ever be a mid to lower PL team , until we drop .. because I wouldn’t bet my house on this squad surviving a relegation battle right now .
This isn’t a knee jerk 4 game reaction either we’re following right on from last season .
 
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Then where do you think the issue is ? Rather than just constantly sniping at Dawson opinion which he’s never suggested is fact , this is a forum for opinions .
For me , from where we come from to now is either a poor level of coaching by PL standards , a poor level of recruitment , or the funds at our disposal

You missed our pre-season training on the bingo card but otherwise good effort. ;)

that mean we have peaked and will only ever be a mid to lower PL team , until we drop .. because I wouldn’t bet my house on this squad surviving a relegation battle right now .
This isn’t a knee jerk 4 game reaction either we’re following right on from last season .

On the point of us "peaking" at being a mid to lower Premier League team. I think that's right and a lot of the debate and argument comes between those that accept that and those that don't.

There is a huge jump to progress through that glass ceiling. The main reason why we haven't broken through that from all of your suggestions is funds.

Due to funds our recruitment differs, we sign players with the potential to improve, occasionally we get the final product like Jefferson Lerma, but even he is also a player likely to improve and was a gamble considering language and not knowing the league etc. That could easily have been a Diego Rico signing, but it turned out well.

Due to signing players to develop, everything takes time, it's not a quick fix and we are still a side in transition that will take a number of transfer windows to get us to where we want to be with the players of potential rather than the old guard.

Then it's down to the players all clicking when they cross that white line and not just in our fluid variants of 4-4-2 but with wing-backs etc as we do need those options in our armoury.

We've also changed our pace, we press at different times to be more explosive on the counter-attack. That makes us look ponderous when it's not clicking.

Then we also make numerous personal errors, lapses of concentration. Everyone has a bad day at the office, the problem we have is it's often not just one player who has that bad day because we are such a confidence team.

On the flip side, that's why we go on decent runs of results because the players also hit form together.
 
We have have picked up many pre-season injuries in the past for as far back as I can remember.

In the past injuries seemed to be picked up as a result of non-league players trying to get their names in the papers by kicking one of our players during a so called pre-season friendly!

For me its not even worth playing pre season games! In addition pre-season practice should be non-contact, played in trainers only, with all our players wrapped up in cotton wool! Jobs a good un! :)

It's all very well Eddie picking league one and two heroes of their day as coaching staff, but as a previous poster has said, we are in the Prem now! We need to move on!

For me, Eddie has to bite the bullet and appoint at least a few specialist coaches who may not be ex-players but who have the necessary experience of playing in the Prem!
 
I'm not happy about our shoddy defending. The difference is I've not diagnosed the reasons using clueless logic that I've just made up.

You've got no idea what the skills of the coaches are, what they are telling Eddie, what Eddie reckons. The buck s.
We really miss brooks, and dont understand playing our best player at left back, surely rico should have played

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it is hardly a secret that Leicester rely heavily on Vardys pace and finishing for goals!

Surely the obvious thing to do was to get Ake to mark Vardy (where the biggest danger was) rather than play Ake as a left back?

Without having a debate on the left back positon, Ake could have marked Vardy within the first team players that were selected - i.e. with Ake playing in the middle of a back three, with Fraser and Smith playing wing backs.

Not rocket science!
 
Then where do you think the issue is ? Rather than just constantly sniping at Dawson opinion which he’s never suggested is fact , this is a forum for opinions .
For me , from where we come from to now is either a poor level of coaching by PL standards , a poor level of recruitment , or the funds at our disposal that mean we have peaked and will only ever be a mid to lower PL team , until we drop .. because I wouldn’t bet my house on this squad surviving a relegation battle right now .
This isn’t a knee jerk 4 game reaction either we’re following right on from last season .

Well I don't buy into this crap that we've been awful for years. We've achieved pretty much the maximum it is possible to achieve save for the fa cup performances. We've also had performances like this every season and people have said the sky is falling in yet all the evidence suggests he will be able to turn it around.

One day he won't, because every team gets relegated, and then all of the end of the world predictions will have come true. People will gloss over the fact that they predicted the end of the world every year and were proved wrong. Neil will have been proved right with whatever tin pot punditry point he's picked to blame it on in the year we go down. Those of us who have pointed out that the team, Eddie, his coaches, etc. haven't been quite as dreadful as many would have you believe will finally have been proved wrong and all will be well.

In terms of what's wrong currently - he's never been able to recruit full backs and our poor performances always seem to be when we're playing square pegs in round holes in that position. It's madness to move Ake from his best position to one where he's average at best.

We've also been unlucky in that our front players are struggling for form. I'm sure Neil will point out that we've not got the coaching staff but they have all shown excellent form in the past in their current positions so it can't be that. They need to recover some form pronto though otherwise we are in trouble.
 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it is hardly a secret that Leicester rely heavily on Vardys pace and finishing for goals!

Surely the obvious thing to do was to get Ake to mark Vardy (where the biggest danger was) rather than play Ake as a left back?

Without having a debate on the left back positon, Ake could have marked Vardy within the first team players that were selected - i.e. with Ake playing in the middle of a back three, with Fraser and Smith playing wing backs.

Not rocket science!

Yeah even if it wasn't against Vardy Ake should have been playing in his correct position. Moving him makes two positions weaker. I've criticised Rico but you have to give him another go.
 
Yeah even if it wasn't against Vardy Ake should have been playing in his correct position. Moving him makes two positions weaker. I've criticised Rico but you have to give him another go.
Ake played CB against Vardy in this game last season....don't remember the result or the performance being much better tbf.
 
Yeah even if it wasn't against Vardy Ake should have been playing in his correct position. Moving him makes two positions weaker. I've criticised Rico but you have to give him another go.

Hi. Captain Tin Pot here.

Let’s take this as a really good example. Mepham has been shown many times to struggle against lightning quick forwards in a way Ake never has. Leicester will have watched the previous game and seen it happening if they didn’t already have dossiers on it (which they will).

Leicester look to exploit the pace of Vardy in behind every game. Again, you don’t have to be Pep to work that one out.

Any half decent coaching team in the world (because I don’t just hold Eddie responsible) could work the above two facts out. I did. You did... you just admitted it.

Ake had to stay central. Mepham had to sit this one out. He had two or three options to allow this but chose one that was off the scale inept and everything unfolded around it.

Now, managers make mistakes and Eddie over his career has got far more right than wrong. So why didn’t one of the coaches step forward. It’s either because a) they couldn’t spot it b) they aren’t brave enough to say ‘ are you feeling alright boss?’ c) he has that little opinion of them they did say it but he ignored it. d) they all naively worked on it together because they wanted 4-4-2 but don’t trust Rico.

I am plumping for d as my option followed by maybe a. All options point to the same thing though.

You can file the Ake error in the same box as Trying to fit King into the number ten role, not recognising a two man midfield gets overran, persisting with Ibe and on and on and on. Inept tactical set up.

We have just watched an outstanding talent who looked distinctly average with us get coached by a Premier league defender into an England cap within 8 months and still you don’t get it?

And to answer your point about the front three I wouldn’t say coaching bad failed them actually because our attacking coaching has always been excellent. I have never said replace all coaches.... just we need a defensive one or one who understands a system other than 4-4-2.

They are just struggling with two defensive midfielders who can’t create (and aren’t helping the defensive record). One of them doesn’t want to be here by the looks of things and the others maybe are off form.
We can’t replace them though because the only options are 35m of collective talent from Liverpool. One of which is bambi on ice and the other is Jordan Ibe.
 
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Ake played CB against Vardy in this game last season....don't remember the result or the performance being much better tbf.

Ake has always handled Vardys pace superbly. He didn’t get away from him on the ground. Same in years before, we normally draw or beat them. In their memorable glory year it was only us Arsenal and Liverpool they didn’t beat.
 
It is clear as daylight,and I know I'm stating the obvious,but the amount of goals we let in is alarming.Be it individual errors,bad luck,wrong set up,inept coaching or wrong team selection,there is something not working.When we score lots it glosses over this,but as that's not happening this highlight our defensive frailties.It needs sorting very soon,at both ends of the pitch,or I think we could be in for a long hard season
 
Ake has always handled Vardys pace superbly. He didn’t get away from him on the ground. Same in years before, we normally draw or beat them. In their memorable glory year it was only us Arsenal and Liverpool they didn’t beat.
Ake's pace stop Vardy scoring though did it Neil ....not sure why Leicester's memorable year is relevant....did we even have Ake then?....I suspect it might've been the lightning quick Franno marking Vardy....
 
Ake's pace stop Vardy scoring though did it Neil ....not sure why Leicester's memorable year is relevant....did we even have Ake then?....I suspect it might've been the lightning quick Franno marking Vardy....

Indeed centre backs for those games were Cook and Elphick and then Francis and Cook.
 
Well I don't buy into this crap that we've been awful for years. We've achieved pretty much the maximum it is possible to achieve save for the fa cup performances. We've also had performances like this every season and people have said the sky is falling in yet all the evidence suggests he will be able to turn it around.

One day he won't, because every team gets relegated, and then all of the end of the world predictions will have come true. People will gloss over the fact that they predicted the end of the world every year and were proved wrong. Neil will have been proved right with whatever tin pot punditry point he's picked to blame it on in the year we go down. Those of us who have pointed out that the team, Eddie, his coaches, etc. haven't been quite as dreadful as many would have you believe will finally have been proved wrong and all will be well.

In terms of what's wrong currently - he's never been able to recruit full backs and our poor performances always seem to be when we're playing square pegs in round holes in that position. It's madness to move Ake from his best position to one where he's average at best.

We've also been unlucky in that our front players are struggling for form. I'm sure Neil will point out that we've not got the coaching staff but they have all shown excellent form in the past in their current positions so it can't be that. They need to recover some form pronto though otherwise we are in trouble.

Agree with pretty much all of this, and more. . .

Apologies in advance of the following waffle if you see it that way but it still is to do with yesterday's game as I think can offer a microcosm or study of where Bournemouth are right now.

Summary for me of the game was disappointment but a few rays of hope if we can get things right. For the first 20 mins, many must have felt we were in with a chance of victory. That all seemed to change with their first goal. Psychology. I'll come back to that in a moment.

But first,

Full back pace is something definitely needed. Not just pace when running but pace of thought. It concerns me. Franno was quick although sometimes he struggled when up against players that could turn him because they were more nimble, but on a one on one, for pace he was pretty b good. He was also excellent getting forward and could play nice one-twos. Never thought I would say that! But, he was part of the team spirit and brought much to the game.

Cookie's groin may be another problem which needs addressing as is Ake playing out of his best defending position and Mepham caught in two minds (twice). I have to say though, that their first goal was erm....superb, if it wasn't offside, and it probably wasn't.

Forwards. Yes. Could do with them hitting form. Let's hope that the Fraser and Wilson partnership will build again. Apart from the first 20 or so minutes, we did look lacklustre up front. I really couldn't see a goal coming from anyone out there. Has Wilson lost pace? Surely there used to be more to his game? Not criticising him. He's an England forward and superb talent.

So it's easy to identify key areas, as many have done. Or key individuals ditto. No, overall in these and all other areas (I've bypassed midfield ) I get the feeling that TEAM SPIRIT needs to grow.

I think this is key to resolving all the above problems. It makes someone caught in two minds quicker of thought, and gives any player more pace. So many relatively new players haven't really gelled as a team, or with the team. It takes leadership on the field to make it happen too. Who was captain yesterday! One of the reasons Southgate was keen on Mings was because of his commanding presence (shouts a lot and orders and directs with finger pointing and arms waving). Dilly dallying in and around our penalty box when a tackle will suffice, or simply boot it out has to be the tactic.

People are saying they can't wait til Lewis C and the others come back. Well, that's fine, they are undoubted talents (and I would love to see them playing too) but we can also read comments on this forum when they were ineffectual or started well but drifted out of the game. It's ok having talent and the squad can thrive on it but above all, there has to be team spirit and leadership. ABOVE ALL ELSE. If the collective minds aren't on their game, then forget it. NO talent in the world is gonna make us play better.

How to remedy that big question of team spirit is up to the gaffer. How do you shape individuals into a team that fights, works, dies for each other?? He was clearly disappointed yesterday and I'm sure Eddie has it in him to sort it out. He is a golden boy still and has time for more life's experiences to shape him too. We all grow and learn from experience but more often than not need a mentor. So another question is, who is mentoring Eddie and Jason?

Hopefully it will come good again soon. We've had a reasonable start compared to the season before last and we've played possibly two of the top 4 already (Leicester and Man City).
 
Hi. Captain Tin Pot here.

Let’s take this as a really good example. Mepham has been shown many times to struggle against lightning quick forwards in a way Ake never has. Leicester will have watched the previous game and seen it happening if they didn’t already have dossiers on it (which they will).

Leicester look to exploit the pace of Vardy in behind every game. Again, you don’t have to be Pep to work that one out.

Any half decent coaching team in the world (because I don’t just hold Eddie responsible) could work the above two facts out. I did. You did... you just admitted it.

Ake had to stay central. Mepham had to sit this one out. He had two or three options to allow this but chose one that was off the scale inept and everything unfolded around it.

Now, managers make mistakes and Eddie over his career has got far more right than wrong. So why didn’t one of the coaches step forward. It’s either because a) they couldn’t spot it b) they aren’t brave enough to say ‘ are you feeling alright boss?’ c) he has that little opinion of them they did say it but he ignored it. d) they all naively worked on it together because they wanted 4-4-2 but don’t trust Rico.

I am plumping for d as my option followed by maybe a. All options point to the same thing though.

You can file the Ake error in the same box as Trying to fit King into the number ten role, not recognising a two man midfield gets overran, persisting with Ibe and on and on and on. Inept tactical set up.

We have just watched an outstanding talent who looked distinctly average with us get coached by a Premier league defender into an England cap within 8 months and still you don’t get it?

And to answer your point about the front three I wouldn’t say coaching bad failed them actually because our attacking coaching has always been excellent. I have never said replace all coaches.... just we need a defensive one or one who understands a system other than 4-4-2.

They are just struggling with two defensive midfielders who can’t create (and aren’t helping the defensive record). One of them doesn’t want to be here by the looks of things and the others maybe are off form.
We can’t replace them though because the only options are 35m of collective talent from Liverpool. One of which is bambi on ice and the other is Jordan Ibe.

You've got absolutely no idea what the coaches have said to Eddie, what their skills are, whether Eddie listens to them, anything.

You've made up options a - d and come up with what you think is the right choice among your completely made up options.

The buck stops with Eddie Howe, if you think there is a massive problem it is with him, not this made up scenario about how the coaches speak to him. Eddie is responsible for the coaching team you know so little about yet apparently have minute tactical insight to.

Maybe Neil, he just doesn't rate Rico, the kid's confidence is shot and Ake had to play there because the other two left backs are injured. No you're right it's probably because the coaches are a bit shy.
 

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