Non - Brexit

Druss_the_Legend said:
Would you, as a country like to eat cake?

51% vote for cake

We can look forward to chocolate cake!

Wait, I voted for Victoria sponge? It was obvious thats what we voted for?

It was clearly red velvet....I wish people would just all get behind the clear YES to eating Red Velvet that was made 2 years ago.

Errr....guys, apparently, the cake we will get is full of dog ****, do you still want to eat it?

YES!! WE VOTED FOR CAKE!!!
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Your mum must have dreaded the tantrums on your birthday when you were a little one .
 
clintclease said:
In over two years I have not heard of one single thing that anyone can show will be improved by leaving the European Union - if any Brexiteer on here can explain clearly one thing then I should be very interested to hear?
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More than anything else it's about bringing the power and accountability back home. It opens up a host of possibilities, no guarantee that any of them will be taken. Reduction of VAT would be pretty high on my priority list though.
 
If after Leaving ( which will not happen imo) we entered into a Norway type engagement with the EU I think that means we can still trade easily with the EU Market and at the same time regain control of our Fishing and Farming Industries which is the main reason that me and many others voted to Leave.
The initial reason for joining in 73 was for Market participation ...Not to have our Domestic Industries( here at home) controlled by Euro Bureaucrats messing with Rules and Regs! Simple..end of!
And not to have our massive money contributions used directly or indirectly to bale out countries like Greece who manage to mismanage the massive incomes they get from Shipping and Tourism...that beggars belief!
The Immigration aspects don't bother me at all!!!
 
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We can already reduce our VAT rate as Alistair Darling did in December 2008 when the the standard rate of VAT was reduced from 17.5% to 15%.

We joined in 1973 and were told then by Ted Heath that “The community which we are joining is far more than a common market. It is a community in the true sense of that term. It is concerned not only with the establishment of free trade, economic and monetary union and other major economic issues, important though these are — but also as the Paris Summit Meeting has demonstrated, with social issues which affect us all — environmental questions, working conditions in industry, consumer protection, aid to development areas and vocational training.”

Non of our contributions have ever, directly or indirectly, been used to bail out Eurozone countries like Greece. That was done by the central banks of Eurozone countries, private investors and the IMF.
 
Wherever money is shifted from ..someone will suffer somehow..it's all linked like a spiders web whether it's governments, banks, private investors et al.

We are quite able to manage our own Social issues and Industry conditions ourselves ..Ted Heath in his aloof money protected environment would know nothing of that part of life would he?
 
bringing the power and accountability back home

Given the capability and performance of local MPs and councils why is that seen as a good thing ?
 
JIMNNINA said:
bringing the power and accountability back home

Given the capability and performance of local MPs and councils why is that seen as a good thing ?
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Can't be any worse than some snotty nosed little Belgian twerp(s) making up rules from over there about our factory safety etc.

Ok our Local Councils need to vastly improve their Acts but that has always been so whether we are in Europe or not!

What is the point of being a Nation if we don't run it ourselves...and being an Island makes it even more the case .
 
Skipster said:
We joined in 1973 and were told then by Ted Heath that “The community which we are joining is far more than a common market. It is a community in the true sense of that term. It is concerned not only with the establishment of free trade, economic and monetary union and other major economic issues, important though these are — but also as the Paris Summit Meeting has demonstrated, with social issues which affect us all — environmental questions, working conditions in industry, consumer protection, aid to development areas and vocational training.”
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If you're suggesting that at the time of the first referendum that people were fully aware that they were voting for full economic, political and monetary union how come that same age group overwhelmingly voted to leave this time?

You are the first person in all of the two years of tit for tat arguing that I've heard suggest that people knew exactly what their vote would lead to - i.e. the formation of the EU 20 years later with no further referendum for another 25 years by which time our politicians would try to suggest that it's too complicated to leave.

Does the same not apply for the 2016 referendum? Did people only know what they were voting for in referendums where you agree with the outcome?
 
JIMNNINA said:
bringing the power and accountability back home

Given the capability and performance of local MPs and councils why is that seen as a good thing ?
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Because they are accountable to voters. Democracy is certainly flawed but it is better than the alternatives. I'm amazed that many people seem to advocate either having our elected politicians overrule the electorate or having unelected European politicians take decisions on the voters behalf.
 
Skipster said:
We can already reduce our VAT rate as Alistair Darling did in December 2008 when the the standard rate of VAT was reduced from 17.5% to 15%.

We joined in 1973 and were told then by Ted Heath that “The community which we are joining is far more than a common market. It is a community in the true sense of that term. It is concerned not only with the establishment of free trade, economic and monetary union and other major economic issues, important though these are — but also as the Paris Summit Meeting has demonstrated, with social issues which affect us all — environmental questions, working conditions in industry, consumer protection, aid to development areas and vocational training.”

Non of our contributions have ever, directly or indirectly, been used to bail out Eurozone countries like Greece. That was done by the central banks of Eurozone countries, private investors and the IMF.
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Bloody hell mate . You joined this forum three years ago and chose to make your first post 176 pages into the Brexit thread ....has nothing happened to AFCB since 2015 that was worthy of a comment ...welcome;)
 
The lobbyists are not accountable to the electors, when was the last time any local council was held to account by the voters, elected representatives switch allegiance without standing down for re election.
 
JIMNNINA said:
The lobbyists are not accountable to the electors, when was the last time any local council was held to account by the voters, elected representatives switch allegiance without standing down for re election.
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You seem to constantly want to draw parallels with local councils - it's comparing apples and oranges imo.

As far as the bigger issues are concerned - you are quite right about lobbyists. The difference is their influence in the UK is tempered by the accountability of the politicians they try to influence - not perfect but a damn sight more accountable than the case in the EU.
 
BillMcgarrycherry said:
I've made hundreds of Afcb 'worthy' and positive comments....you just don't like my way of looking at things.
As for Brexit I've been posting on that for ages and when I feel it like it..not to please you!
I don't post to get ' likes' . But I've had hundreds as well as criticism.
I do it for fun mainly and you don't bother me....I've even liked and agreed with many of your posts!
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Waits for Bill to realise he was not the person being replied to...
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Because they are accountable to voters. Democracy is certainly flawed but it is better than the alternatives. I'm amazed that many people seem to advocate either having our elected politicians overrule the electorate or having unelected European politicians take decisions on the voters behalf.
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I have heard a number of people who voted Remain say that we should honour the vote of the people?

Have you changed your mind since the 2016 vote?

Still hearing politicians etc saying we can stop Brexit, don’t they believe in a Democratic vote?
 
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