Non - General Election

Listening to a radio debate this morning and it was suggested that Sinn Fein would possibly stand on a platform which involved them taking their seats at Westminster.
 
Yeah...get Sinn Fein on them green seats...lets Rumble in the Mumble ! Injection of both Fun and yet another Division of the 'cross' - section...just the ticket!
 
fritter said:
A general election now does not help. Many in labour and libdems voted to leave and (I think) 38% of Tories voted to remain. How do they make their views re EU count?

The way forward now is easy.

Corbyn consults with other parties and Tories who don't support Johnson. Agrees to form a government after a vote of no confidence.

Cabinet to be made up of different parties including those recently in the Tory party. A genuine cross party cabinet. Maybe with Kenneth Clark as deputy PM.

New government will revoke article 50 with a pledge to agree a withdrawal agreement from the EU within a clear time frame and then hold a referendum with 2 options.
1. Vote for the withdrawal agreement, in which case article 50 can be invoked and we leave pretty much straight away.
2. Vote to remain in the EU.

This way people will know exactly what they are voting for. The electorate has changed since 2016. Those now over 18 since 2016 should have their views taken into account.

New government will prepare one other law, proportional representation and then call a general election.

Election held under new proportional representation law so no more need for tactical voting ever.
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That’s fine up until a point. If Brexit was the only thing a government was actually trying to do.

What about other policy when all sides are currently lurching from extreme to extreme.
 
fritter said:
A general election now does not help. Many in labour and libdems voted to leave and (I think) 38% of Tories voted to remain. How do they make their views re EU count?

The way forward now is easy.

Corbyn consults with other parties and Tories who don't support Johnson. Agrees to form a government after a vote of no confidence.

Cabinet to be made up of different parties including those recently in the Tory party. A genuine cross party cabinet. Maybe with Kenneth Clark as deputy PM.

New government will revoke article 50 with a pledge to agree a withdrawal agreement from the EU within a clear time frame and then hold a referendum with 2 options.
1. Vote for the withdrawal agreement, in which case article 50 can be invoked and we leave pretty much straight away.
2. Vote to remain in the EU.

This way people will know exactly what they are voting for. The electorate has changed since 2016. Those now over 18 since 2016 should have their views taken into account.

New government will prepare one other law, proportional representation and then call a general election.

Election held under new proportional representation law so no more need for tactical voting ever.
Click to expand...

Would really like to see that happen.

The only flaw in that so far as I can see, is we cannot agree a withdrawal agreement with the EU unless we trigger Article 50.
The EU insisted, after the June 16 vote, that no negotiations could be made until A50 was actually triggered, with a 2 year negotiation period.

With that in mind, the realistic choices are:

1. A unity Govt to organise a fresh referendum with Remain v TM deal already on the table (or possibly Remain v ND v TM Deal under STV).
I would argue that a No Deal ext has such serious consequences that no sensible Govt should ever even consider it. However, removing it as an option would upset a lot of hard Brexiteers and lead to claims of them not having their voices heard.

If Remain is the outcome, then, and only then, should A50 be revoked.
Much as I would like A50 to be revoked here and now, it must only happen after a public vote to ensure there is no doubt about its legitimacy.

2. A unity govt to gain a one-year extension to A50 and use the time to negotiate a relatively soft Brexit with continued access to SM amd CU, then put it to the people in a referendum as above.
Wouldn't please the No Deal headbangers, but their view is that the views of the 48% don't count in any way, so...

Once this is resolved, then a General Election.

If common agreement can be reached on other areas where legislation to keep the country running can be passed in the meantime, then all well and good.

I too want to see a form of PR in place.

An election now, as polling suggests, raises the spectre of a very right wing authoritarian Tory party (having replaced all their moderate MPs with hard-right candidates) having a majority in the Commons with just a third of the vote. That cannot go on.
PR will not happen, however, unless the Lib Dems form a government on their own, as LAB and SNP do quite nicely under FPTP and would be unlikely to agree to it.
 
fritter said:
A general election now does not help. Many in labour and libdems voted to leave and (I think) 38% of Tories voted to remain. How do they make their views re EU count?

The way forward now is easy.

Corbyn consults with other parties and Tories who don't support Johnson. Agrees to form a government after a vote of no confidence.

Cabinet to be made up of different parties including those recently in the Tory party. A genuine cross party cabinet. Maybe with Kenneth Clark as deputy PM.

New government will revoke article 50 with a pledge to agree a withdrawal agreement from the EU within a clear time frame and then hold a referendum with 2 options.
1. Vote for the withdrawal agreement, in which case article 50 can be invoked and we leave pretty much straight away.
2. Vote to remain in the EU.

This way people will know exactly what they are voting for. The electorate has changed since 2016. Those now over 18 since 2016 should have their views taken into account.

New government will prepare one other law, proportional representation and then call a general election.

Election held under new proportional representation law so no more need for tactical voting ever.
Click to expand...

Sounds great ! Brexit in name only or remain .
Why not be more honest ? Cancel the whole thing and then go to the country and see how it works out for them .

Do you actually think people that voted to LEAVE would partake in such a one sided referendum .
Considering the country has already voted on leave or remain surely the choices should be leave with whatever surrender treaty arch remainers like Ken Clarke come up with or no deal ... unless of course this whole charade is about staying in .
 
Jim_AFCB said:
Would really like to see that happen.

The only flaw in that so far as I can see, is we cannot agree a withdrawal agreement with the EU unless we trigger Article 50.
The EU insisted, after the June 16 vote, that no negotiations could be made until A50 was actually triggered, with a 2 year negotiation period.

With that in mind, the realistic choices are:

1. A unity Govt to organise a fresh referendum with Remain v TM deal already on the table (or possibly Remain v ND v TM Deal under STV).
I would argue that a No Deal ext has such serious consequences that no sensible Govt should ever even consider it. However, removing it as an option would upset a lot of hard Brexiteers and lead to claims of them not having their voices heard.

If Remain is the outcome, then, and only then, should A50 be revoked.
Much as I would like A50 to be revoked here and now, it must only happen after a public vote to ensure there is no doubt about its legitimacy.

2. A unity govt to gain a one-year extension to A50 and use the time to negotiate a relatively soft Brexit with continued access to SM amd CU, then put it to the people in a referendum as above.
Wouldn't please the No Deal headbangers, but their view is that the views of the 48% don't count in any way, so...

Once this is resolved, then a General Election.

If common agreement can be reached on other areas where legislation to keep the country running can be passed in the meantime, then all well and good.

I too want to see a form of PR in place.

An election now, as polling suggests, raises the spectre of a very right wing authoritarian Tory party (having replaced all their moderate MPs with hard-right candidates) having a majority in the Commons with just a third of the vote. That cannot go on.
PR will not happen, however, unless the Lib Dems form a government on their own, as LAB and SNP do quite nicely under FPTP and would be unlikely to agree to it.
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After all that......which is OK. .in its general reasoning...
But why are No Deal supporters 'Headbangers ' and not anyone else?

Are they ALL less intelligent than the Non-No Dealers?
Are they not just 'other people with a different viewpoint or different vision?

Not all Leave supporters are Right Wing or even remotely Tory!!!
Likewise ..not all Remainers are Left!

Black and White doesnt feature .
 
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What about other policy when all sides are currently lurching from extreme to extreme

Good question. The Tories policy has been to cut everything and now, seemingly, reinstate it.

Cameron, may and Johnson are modern day Britain's Marx brothers, without the humour.

RE Wallmth. I just set out what I thought was a realistic, achievable and practical way out of the mess that the Marx Bros have got us into. I felt that was of more use than yelling at each other.

I don't know what will happen, but I suspect the Tories will never recover. Maybe that's Cameron's legacy, to break up the UK and the Tory party.

Might all have been worth it in the end. I'd go along with whatever brexit brings to finish the Tories off.
 
fritter said:
What about other policy when all sides are currently lurching from extreme to extreme

Good question. The Tories policy has been to cut everything and now, seemingly, reinstate it.

Cameron, may and Johnson are modern day Britain's Marx brothers, without the humour.

RE Wallmth. I just set out what I thought was a realistic, achievable and practical way out of the mess that the Marx Bros have got us into. I felt that was of more use than yelling at each other.

I don't know what will happen, but I suspect the Tories will never recover. Maybe that's Cameron's legacy, to break up the UK and the Tory party.

Might all have been worth it in the end. I'd go along with whatever brexit brings to finish the Tories off.
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Even if what comes after the Tories is Farage?

Don't get me wrong - I would love to see them finished too - but not at any price
 
The ideas above are all very well, unity government, revoking Article 50 and having a re-think and all sorts of other things but with this present parliament is there a majority for anything? Every faction has its own agenda.

Eventually there'll be another general election but what happens if there's no majority for something then?

Surely this is going to end soon?

We must be the laughing stock of Europe.
 
wallmth said:
Sounds great ! Brexit in name only or remain .
Why not be more honest ? Cancel the whole thing and then go to the country and see how it works out for them .

Do you actually think people that voted to LEAVE would partake in such a one sided referendum .
Considering the country has already voted on leave or remain surely the choices should be leave with whatever surrender treaty arch remainers like Ken Clarke come up with or no deal ... unless of course this whole charade is about staying in .
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Is it an advisory or a referendum....funny how an advisory has not been mentioned for 3 years (similar to a parliamentary democracy).......until last couple of months

So what advisory question will be asked this time round (By the way I do not support another referendum/advisory)
Oh and by the way I am NOT a headbanger....I have however had direct dealings with the EU and thats why I voted leave...anyone who thinks HS2 is a vast overspend should investigate the costs paid by the EU
 
fritter said:
What is brexit in name only?
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lol this.

Some leavers actually want a country wide melt down with industries going to the wall as proof of a "true" brexit,.

Anything else would be in name only.

Wallmth, please explain what process of leaving would be acceptable to you to achieve the vote from 2016? At some point between staying where we are and declaring war on the EU there must be a process where you think that means brexit? Please, I would love to know.
 
Amber Rudd resigns from Government over expulsions and relinquishes the Tory whip.
 
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DJ said:
We had a referendum on PR, I voted for it, but it lost so we all moved on.
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No we didn’t. If you are referring to the 2011 referendum that was a choice between FPTP and the even less proportional AV system. Had PR been on the ballot paper, people might have voted differently.
 
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