Non - Labour Party

adam0102 said:
Surely Blair's only guiding principle was "say what it takes to get elected". It's difficult to see that he had any real ideological beliefs
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Gordon Brown and Theresa May are the only two recent PMs who didn't fit this description in one way or another and they both got pretty much booted out by the electorate. Johnson is the worst of the lot for it too. Do you honestly reckon Johnson has greater ideological beliefs than Blair?
 
adam0102 said:
Surely Blair's only guiding principle was "say what it takes to get elected". It's difficult to see that he had any real ideological beliefs
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That's true, to an extent, I worked in education at the time and the improvements were immense. He let ministers and department get on with things, not so much micro managing. Never a fan of Blair, but there were some good and effective people in national and regional govt. Much was devolved to the regions with no political interference.

Then he was guided by God of course. Anyone who says or believes that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near public office.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Gordon Brown and Theresa May are the only two recent PMs who didn't fit this description in one way or another and they both got pretty much booted out by the electorate. Johnson is the worst of the lot for it too. Do you honestly reckon Johnson has greater ideological beliefs than Blair?
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No, I don’t, and that’s why I didn’t say it

I was replying to a point about “the current tories having no guiding principles”
 
wallmth said:
Well written but could easily be rewritten with the Tories and Labour names switched around particularly the bit about the Left wing threat ... we all know that so many on the left( many on this forum ) just love to make out we’re just one step away from a Fascist society and anyone voting for the Tories/Brexit is a racist .
Suggesting that Blair was principled whereas the current crop of Tories are not is pretty laughable .
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The Labour movement sprang from labour and the rights of working people. That was a powerful motivator. I'm not sure that conservatism was a movement on the same way.

I think Blair had principles, I don't think he was a bad person per se. He had a cabinet of people that included people who didn't agree with him. Johnson sacked anyone who disagreed.

Re left/right. Media and Tories will use term 'far left' to describe Labour MPs, Corbyn just one example. I don't recall the BBC or national media referring to any prominent Tories as 'far right'. Not sure the labour leadership has used 'far right' to describe Tory ministers.

The media have a huge impact on what people think. Many newspapers have non uk owners who pay no or little tax so they have an incentive to rubbish labour. Its telling that Murdoch supported Blair's government.
 
RobTrent said:
Which goes against your comments in your previous post. Make up your mind.

Also if wages go up, prices invariably do as well.
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Yep, that's the issue with raising minimum wage all the time too.

Surprised nobody has mentioned big tv's and iPhones yet...
 
The electable leader of the party and leader of the nation.

David Cameron has said he was paid "far more" as a part-time adviser to now-collapsed Greensill Capital than when he was prime minister.
He told MPs he had had a "big economic investment" in the finance company, including shares.
But he insisted he was not motivated by money when he lobbied ministers on behalf of the firm - and he believed he had acted in the national interest.

David Cameron: I was paid far more at Greensill than as PM - BBC News

The business empire of Liberty Steel owner Sanjeev Gupta is under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO).
The probe is over suspected fraudulent trading and money laundering, including its financing arrangements with failed company Greensill Capital UK.
Greensill, a major lender to Mr Gupta's business, collapsed last month.
Gupta empire facing UK fraud probe over Greensill - BBC News
 
The policy of renationalising infrastructure and utilities is the latest unelectable policy taken onboard

Rail passengers have been promised a better and more efficient service under the biggest shake-up in decades.
A new state-owned body, Great British Railways (GBR), will set timetables and prices, sell tickets in England and manage rail infrastructure.
Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said it would replace an "overcomplicated and fragmented" system.
He told the BBC the changes did not mean fares would inevitably rise, but could not give guarantees.
Asked on Today if the changes meant rising ticket prices, Mr Shapps said: "No, is the answer". But he added: "I'm not here to give guarantees for years to come."
He pointed out that the taxpayer had plugged a £12bn hole during the coronavirus crisis to keep the railways operating and fares were subsidised, but said there was no "hidden agenda".

Better rail services promised in huge shake-up - BBC News
 
JIMNNINA said:
The policy of renationalising infrastructure and utilities is the latest unelectable policy taken onboard

Rail passengers have been promised a better and more efficient service under the biggest shake-up in decades.
A new state-owned body, Great British Railways (GBR), will set timetables and prices, sell tickets in England and manage rail infrastructure.
Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said it would replace an "overcomplicated and fragmented" system.
He told the BBC the changes did not mean fares would inevitably rise, but could not give guarantees.
Asked on Today if the changes meant rising ticket prices, Mr Shapps said: "No, is the answer". But he added: "I'm not here to give guarantees for years to come."
He pointed out that the taxpayer had plugged a £12bn hole during the coronavirus crisis to keep the railways operating and fares were subsidised, but said there was no "hidden agenda".

Better rail services promised in huge shake-up - BBC News
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Not gone far enough sadly.
 
Interesting timing to bring in more state control of the railways at a time when the sector is on it's @rse because nobody is using the railways. And unless people start going back into workplaces en mass, it will continue to die on it's @rse. All the while there's HS2 inching it's way forward at vast expense.
 
northstandmark said:
Interesting timing to bring in more state control of the railways at a time when the sector is on it's @rse because nobody is using the railways. And unless people start going back into workplaces en mass, it will continue to die on it's @rse. All the while there's HS2 inching it's way forward at vast expense.
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pre-pandemic, the rail sector was doing pretty well in terms of usage, if not punctuality and prices.
 
Ken Baileys Ghost said:
Honest truth?

At the time I wasn't in either camp.

It's always looked like a no win situation in a fucked up country, had many a row with Mrs Ghost over it.
She was, quite rightly as it turns out, vehemently against going into Iraq,
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It was all boolacks and lies from Bliar and Bush - they’d decided to “ restructure “ the Middle East before the WMD stuff - he mentions it in a documentary on the IPlayer ...

Everyone knew Iraq was a spent force militarily after the first Gulf War anyway ...
 
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