Non: Train Strike

RobTrent said:
As a wheelchair user who often uses the trains, I am really grateful that guards are on board to make sure we can get on and off at the right place. I've no doubt some will blame guards for the poor services provided by the Franchises, as they do with doctors for the NHS.

Rail franchises seem only to make money for a few, so lets bring them all back under state control.
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Except they aren't making any money, quite the opposite. Passenger numbers are in decline (not that you'd know it from the crowding) and SWT owners FirstGroup posted a £290.9m loss in 2018. First are even threatening to sue the government would you believe it! I gather because the terms they agreed for running SWT were based on passenger and revenue numbers that have since proved to be total pie in the sky.

I guess the government could tell First to 'do-one' like it did with the East Coast. The taxpayer would have to take on those losses.
 
northstandmark said:
Except they aren't making any money, quite the opposite. Passenger numbers are in decline (not that you'd know it from the crowding) and SWT owners FirstGroup posted a £290.9m loss in 2018. First are even threatening to sue the government would you believe it! I gather because the terms they agreed for running SWT were based on passenger and revenue numbers that have since proved to be total pie in the sky.

I guess the government could tell First to 'do-one' like it did with the East Coast. The taxpayer would have to take on those losses.
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Maybe it could save money here:

- Since 2012/13 private rail companies have paid out £1,031m in dividends to shareholders. Figures are from the Office of Road and Rail, UK Rail Industry Financial Information: http://orr.gov.uk/rail/publications/reports/uk-rail-industry-financial-information and Companies House: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/
 
northstandmark said:
Except they aren't making any money, quite the opposite. Passenger numbers are in decline (not that you'd know it from the crowding) and SWT owners FirstGroup posted a £290.9m loss in 2018. First are even threatening to sue the government would you believe it! I gather because the terms they agreed for running SWT were based on passenger and revenue numbers that have since proved to be total pie in the sky.

I guess the government could tell First to 'do-one' like it did with the East Coast. The taxpayer would have to take on those losses.
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Ironically east coast taken back under state control made a profit. As for falling passenger numbers well I look frequently at weekend travel to London but the train is 3 times the cost of coach. Locally it's 2.40 on bus single to work or 3.30 single on train..for a 3 minute journey.
 
wayneofafcb said:
Ironically east coast taken back under state control made a profit. As for falling passenger numbers well I look frequently at weekend travel to London but the train is 3 times the cost of coach. Locally it's 2.40 on bus single to work or 3.30 single on train..for a 3 minute journey.
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It should go back to being public transport - rather than private companies providing transport to the public for a profit.

Many years ago during another period of industrial unrest I heard a debate on the radio between a senior manager of one of the rail companies and the late Bob Crow. During the interview Bob Crow asked whether the manager had ever read the biography of the late Harold Macmillan. The manager said no. Bob Crow had - and pointed out that Harold MacMillan had been a shareholder in the Great Western railway - but never drew a dividend, and didn't expect to - because he thought the money should go into providing the service to the public.
 
Unless Brexit can get around 75% of the population of Britain behind it...im afraid its a dead duck.... and those of us that voted Leave have to realise that without someone leading it with the brains to overcome the obstacles...then we need to let it go with a Revoke.... then regroup whilst the EU continues into its own suicide attempts....and attack it again at a later date......sometimes you have to see light through another tunnel.....a bit like the Great Escape!
 
I'm back next Monday, after the Cenotaph parade, then via Southampton.
Impressed with Southampton to Bournemouth for £4-50.
Sure it was more than that before I left 12 years ago.
 
I don’t believe nationalising the rails is the magic wand to sorting out, which in all honesty is a sorry state of affairs, that some like to think it is.

The real problem with the rail industry isn’t privatisation, it’s the fragmented franchise system. Instead of increasing competition, it actually restricts consumer choice.

Take the East Coast Mainline for example. Between certain stations there is a choice of 4 operators - Northern, Cross Country, LNER and Transpennine Express. If I buy a return ticket with Northern, for my return journey I am restricted by my choice of train ie. I must take a Northern Train even if I have to wait an hour or more when there are empty trains waiting by the other operator.

I think having just one operator (whether private or public owned) would encourage are far more joined up rail strategy. I’d also assume one large operator would have economies of scale and would therefore be more efficient.

On balance I’d say nationalisation would be preferable since the problems the rail industry face would be best resolved with those with detailed rail knowledge rather than money men in suits.
 
I think the rail and tube strikes are why people are hesitant about renationalising the railways. I think the union has a good case regarding guards on trains - people do feel safer knowing there's someone there. It makes a lot of sense to have a national rail service, more really than a fragmented privatised one, but there's still a large part of the population that remembers the '70's and the chaos of nationwide strikes and they know that it doesn't take much for a militant leader like the aforementioned Bob Crow to bring the country to a standstill. The unions don't actually have that much power these days but the RMT is probably one of the few that does and strikes like this aren't going to convince many people that renationalisation is a good thing. Tactically it just seems a really bad idea. You've got a good case, but, f*ck me, lads, strike in January when people will be glad to have the time off.
 
If these rail company barstewards dont have guards on trains, forfeiting safety for profit, then a full blown lengthy strike is warranted.
The guard is a communication link to outside services in the event of terrorism and for medical assistance....passengers should realise this before they moan and condemn strikes.
My missus totally disagrees as an arch ex- London Tory and weve had screaming pitch rows over this. ...
Tollpuddle Martyrs ..yo!
 
Tinpot Club said:
I don’t believe nationalising the rails is the magic wand to sorting out, which in all honesty is a sorry state of affairs, that some like to think it is.

The real problem with the rail industry isn’t privatisation, it’s the fragmented franchise system. Instead of increasing competition, it actually restricts consumer choice.

Take the East Coast Mainline for example. Between certain stations there is a choice of 4 operators - Northern, Cross Country, LNER and Transpennine Express. If I buy a return ticket with Northern, for my return journey I am restricted by my choice of train ie. I must take a Northern Train even if I have to wait an hour or more when there are empty trains waiting by the other operator.

I think having just one operator (whether private or public owned) would encourage are far more joined up rail strategy. I’d also assume one large operator would have economies of scale and would therefore be more efficient.

On balance I’d say nationalisation would be preferable since the problems the rail industry face would be best resolved with those with detailed rail knowledge rather than money men in suits.
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It's certainly a case of private sector done badly. The whole point is innovation through competition, except here there is no competition for the vast majority of routes around the country, and each franchise is basically a monopoly.

So I'm not exactly enthusiastic about the current arrangement, or totally against public ownership, which as you say it may allow for better joined up thinking / planning than our current fragmented arrangement. But I don't really want public money chucked hand over fist into the same black hole that currently appears on most franchise balance sheets.

Personally, I'm not sure the privatisation / nationalisation argument is looking in best place anyway. Sure they keep the engines and rolling stock running around. But it doesn't matter whether the engines / rolling stock are managed by the ghost of Bob Crow or the Wolf on Wall Street, if the infrastructure is creaking and full of bottlenecks it ain't going to work very well either way. And this is the Public Sector bit! Unfortunately resolving that is mega bucks, long term, and years of wrangling even before anything gets off the ground. Successive governments have shied away from it, with the exception of London, only fiddled around the edges of the rest of the network

Think I've mentioned previously that if I were made dictator for a day (god help us) one of the top priorities for me would be nicking the insane HS2 budget, and spreading that around smaller rail projects all over the country. Which cumulatively could add up to more benefit to more people and the network as a whole, than 1 or 2 massive projects. Network rail must have a shopping list of bottlenecks they could fix if the money were there?

I also feel that decades long lasting infrastructure is about the best use of public money we can get, and the UK's deficit in borrowing is low these days.
 
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Totally agree with your post northstandmark.
I'm not sure what the answer is regarding re-nationalisation. It certainly wasn't paradise under BR! All I know is the money being poured into it from ticket revenue and from the tax payer should not then be redistributed via shareholders pockets. What people have to remember is when they're looking at getting rid of guards it's to maximise profit, something they already make anyway, it's just more greed. Personally I think it's such an important part of the countries infrastructure that all profits should be put directly back into improvements as it is essential to make it work. Not feathering the nest of the Chinese or Italian companies that come here to run services for one reason.
Regarding HS2 that was put to Boris when he was Mayor of London and he said if HS2 was cancelled the money would not be spent elsewhere. This was unbelievable. As someone who sees it everyday I can tell you that the main problems Network Rail face are the fact that we are using infrastructure that was out of date 30 years ago.
 
Total Nationalisation of the Health Service and Railways and Buses.....for the Wellbeing of All with Comprehensive and Cheap Transportation to Get the Nation Up and Running.....Everything else can be Private..where people can do what they like with and to themselves and their businesses and the people take it or leave it!
 
BillMcgarrycherry said:
Unless Brexit can get around 75% of the population of Britain behind it...im afraid its a dead duck.... and those of us that voted Leave have to realise that without someone leading it with the brains to overcome the obstacles...then we need to let it go with a Revoke.... then regroup whilst the EU continues into its own suicide attempts....and attack it again at a later date......sometimes you have to see light through another tunnel.....a bit like the Great Escape!
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Wrong thread Bill?
 
We already have nationalised companies from other countries running trains and buses in this country. This from a list in the Independent earlier in the year.

c2c: Italian state
Chiltern: German state
Caledonian sleeper: PRIVATE
CrossCountry: German state
East Midlands: Dutch state
Eurostar: French state
Gatwick Express: French state
Grand Central: German state
Great Northern: French state
GWR: PRIVATE
Greater Anglia: Dutch state
Heathrow Express: PRIVATE
Hull Trains: PRIVATE
LNER: British state
London Northwestern Railway: Dutch state
London Overground: German state
London Underground: British state
Merseyrail: Dutch state
Northern: German state
Northern Ireland Railways: British state
Scotrail: Dutch state
South Western Railway: Hong Kong state
Southeastern: French state
Southern: French state
Stansted Express: Dutch state
TfL rail: Hong Kong state
Thameslink: French state
TransPennine Express: PRIVATE
Transport for Wales: French state
West Coast: Italian state
West Midlands Railway: Dutch state

So South West Trains are run by Hong Kong State.
London Underground and Northern Ireland Railways are already nationalised by the British State.

All I would ask is that the British State take on the franchises when they expire, and run the Railway Lines on the basis of the following management structure, One-third Government, one-third elected by passenger groups and one-third elected by the rail workers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...85726.html?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=Feed


http://fashioninsider.club/t/the-we...Wardrobe+Reflect+Your+Age?}&utm_ad=223785896 
 
The worst part about that list is the majority of those companies are running railways in their own countries and are not allowed by their governments to make profit for shareholders.
 
The staff shouldn't strike. They should all work but not check tickets. People would travel for free and all the trains would run and staff would still get paid.
 
fritter said:
The staff shouldn't strike. They should all work but not check tickets. People would travel for free and all the trains would run and staff would still get paid.
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Not a bad idea fritter but I have read somewhere, weirdly, that that is classed as working to rule which can lead to disciplinary action whereas going on strike legally does not. I know that sounds bizarre.
 
Reading the para from the Company about agreeing to keep guards on trains, isn’t that what the Union and the public want?

So anyone know what the problem is now?

The missing ‘ingredient’ to sort this problem?


Today.

Rail commuters are to be hit by almost a month of strikes across the Christmas period after talks to avert them broke down.

For the Union

Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union's general secretary Mick Cash said: "No proposals that would enable the development of a resolution to the dispute have been put forward by SWR.

Throughout these talks SWR have not shown any intention of moving the issues at the heart of the dispute forwards, despite verbal assurances in earlier discussions.

"It has become increasingly clear that they are not interested in reaching a settlement at this time.

For the Company

A SWR spokesman said: "We're very disappointed. Despite promising to keep guards on all our trains and promising that they will have a safety-critical role, the talks broke down today.

"We believe these promises deliver on what the RMT has been asking for, so these strikes are unnecessary.

"We remain committed to finding a solution that works for our customers and we remain open to talks if the RMT decides to reconsider its position.

https://news.sky.com/story/christma...trikes-to-hit-commuters-and-shoppers-11866230
 
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