Agreed. It’s easy to bombard an opposition’s penalty area when the opposition decide to sit so deep and purely defend. At times this season it’s as though we are purely playing defence vs attack when holding out, I’ve never seen anything like it really, a team that completely sacrifices even any threat on the counter to defend their own goal. Yet we leave Zemura on his own at the back post against a player over a foot taller than him? I can’t fault the grit and determination, but it does seem like a very strange way to attempt to see out a game. (Yes I know it’s worked so far, but teams always seem to have their best goal scoring opportunities when we defend this deep. Yesterday, QPR and Luton being examples.) I don’t get it, and I don’t feel comfortable relying on luck.
Thoughts on the match V Sheff Utd
- Thread starter kirsikka
- Start date
SlowDownDerek
UTC Legend
Millwall and Barnsley? Also conceded a late winner in a couple. I think there's probably a certain amount of supporter pessimism but we've definitely had periods where we throw away leads trying to hold on. Under SOD and Eddie in league 2 spring to mind. So far we've not done this once under Parker although obviously it's going to happen at some point.
Matt Stevenson
First Team
Agreed, if you looked at the stats last season Danjuma did so much better than average, which wasn’t a coincidence. That’s why I think Solanke and Billing should get credit this season as both have been outperforming the average. whether that will continue or is a lucky streak is to be seen, but fingers crossed it is the former.
Druss_the_Legend
UTC Legend
So again, that makes the stat pretty pointless? Comparing post match XG or whatever its called when it doesnt care who the players are.
New Forest Cherry
Star Player
thanks for the memory, that's months of therapy down the toilet....
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Topfarrier
UTC Legend
Millwall and Barnsley......not exactly a problem over a whole season is it?......is it really worth employing such an extremely negative tatic that offers as far as I can see no advantage?.....
A tatic that also up to now owes its success to luck rather than skill it must be said .
New Forest Cherry
Star Player
that's a massive exaggeration
it's coming off his line but still inside the six yard box to help out his defenders I have a problem with
Matt Stevenson
First Team
Only as pointless as comparing chances, big chances, corners, possession etc.
we can either just print the score and be done with it, or take on board other stats and pay them as much heed as we think they deserve as individuals.
By definition, most players are average, so most of the time it isn’t too skewed. It was only Danjuma who noticeable bucked the goals to xG ratio In the Championship last season
CherryBare
UTC Legend
We can mull over the missed chances and shots on target, but there's only one stat that matters, that's 2-1 to us.
I quite like how we are able to hang on to a lead but it does need tweaking a bit. We need to maintain some counter attack threat. When the clock is winding down and the opposition is throwing everything forwards, it is a fantastic opportunity for somebody with pace to possibly have a one on one with their keeper, if we have that out ball. If we did that then I’d have no issue with prioritising defending our lead but as you say, to carry zero threat whilst doing so is surrendering the rest of the game to the opposition completely. They can concentrate all of their efforts on scoring a goal, knowing that we are not in a position to hurt them.
I’d like to think that SP will consider a tweak in this direction. Defend as a team by all means but always be looking for a counter opportunity, leave somebody with pace more advanced and always look for that out ball when we have possession.
Sorry Roger
Fans' Favourite
Isn’t that what bringing on Lowe is intended to achieve?
DJ
Moderator
I’m amazed that xG, gets discussed so much.
The overall total makes a stat, that’s just as of interest as the possession or shots tally. But that’s it. Drill down to the detail and no doubt it’s probably completely flawed, but overall, it gives a stats based view.
I like the graph that Matt produces as that also shows in a way, the ebb and flow of the game.
But it’s never going to tell whole story, so don’t look at is as such. Where’s the debate on how the possession stats are accumulated?
The overall total makes a stat, that’s just as of interest as the possession or shots tally. But that’s it. Drill down to the detail and no doubt it’s probably completely flawed, but overall, it gives a stats based view.
I like the graph that Matt produces as that also shows in a way, the ebb and flow of the game.
But it’s never going to tell whole story, so don’t look at is as such. Where’s the debate on how the possession stats are accumulated?
If that is the intent then we need to implement it better. That’s why I think we just need a tweak here and there. If he makes sure he stays in the right areas and we make sure that when defending we are always looking to get the ball to him, it’s all good. I just don’t think we’re quite there yet. If we can do that well and give the opposition something else to think about other than attacking our goal, it’s all good IMO
New Old Cherry
UTC Legend
I can understand the theoretical aspect of the ×G stats...but that's all it is...and limited or impossible in its capacity to affect the next game.
Only twice a year are we able to swap a player with average ×G stats with one who has better... so then its the task of outing, say Solanke or Anthony ....and bringing in Salah...or Ron Aldo....which is probably not a realistic outcome.
That's how i'm reading the gist of what is discussed on this Forum, on these matters.
Only twice a year are we able to swap a player with average ×G stats with one who has better... so then its the task of outing, say Solanke or Anthony ....and bringing in Salah...or Ron Aldo....which is probably not a realistic outcome.
That's how i'm reading the gist of what is discussed on this Forum, on these matters.
Topfarrier
UTC Legend
This is what I have a problem with....you say you quite like how we're able to hang on to a lead when it's something we've never struggled with!.....
I think different people have different opinions about that though TF. For me personally we are now better at hanging on, plenty of us here have stated that we are more relaxed when watching us defend a narrow lead. There are probably statistics to prove both points of view but many of us “feel” as if we are defensively much more solid this season.
As you said, I’d like to see us maintain our goal threat when hanging on, other than that I’m fine with it. As SDD said, one day we won’t get away with it and might “only” draw. Still seems a valid approach in a campaign where it’s all about consistently picking up points.
With a slight tweak to our hanging on tactics I think they can serve us well. I just don’t want us to completely surrender the last 20 minutes of the game to the opposition, no need for that !
There is a lot to be said about playing to your strengths. This season, unlike so many in the past, our defence and defensive midfield is unquestionably a big, big strength. Parker knows that and is reasonably happy to let us rely on it at times. I am sure he would love us to batter teams for 90 minutes but it ain't gonna happen. Some say we have been lucky, I don't agree. Some say that opposition players should have punished us, maybe, but this is not the PL, the standard of forwards is much lower. If we had played a midtable PL side yesterday we would have lost, same as QPR and Luton games because you get punished in the PL - not so much in this league.
Sure we will come unstuck and let some goals in but this team is also a developing one and I think it will get better and better. Now if we got promoted that would be a whole different ball game.
Sure we will come unstuck and let some goals in but this team is also a developing one and I think it will get better and better. Now if we got promoted that would be a whole different ball game.
Topfarrier
UTC Legend
Personally I don't know how anyone can be more relaxed with us inviting that much pressure...... again defending leads is something we've been very good at over the years tbh.....I thought Woodgate was too cautious at times last season but he shut down games very well by swapping our wingers for fullbacks to stop the supply of crosses.......that has to be a better 'tactic' than what we're doing now.
Garbo
UTC Legend
Panic ye not guys....as far as I am concerned we will win more games than we lose adopting a "we will protect what we have" philosophy...I recall Eddie Howe's tactic and how often we sat back for many periods and eventually caved in....our defence is now more resolute and well marshalled by Cahill and having the option of bringing on an international centre back to help shore up the wall...
We should be lauding the fact that we can score when we need to in most matches now?...al be it with Phil Bill becoming a consistent provider of a goal!
Hats off to Solanke for his guts and determination...he is shaping up to be that player we purchased all those years ago!
We should be lauding the fact that we can score when we need to in most matches now?...al be it with Phil Bill becoming a consistent provider of a goal!
Hats off to Solanke for his guts and determination...he is shaping up to be that player we purchased all those years ago!
