Time to Lawyer Up!

Villa fan here in peace.

I hope you sue.

Not because there is any chance at all that you will be kept up at our expense. The threat of a counterclaim for not just the butterfly effect of the goal being given (Sheff Utd were frankly there for the taking that game, and we'd have gone gung ho for the win rather than playing out the last five happy with a point against a Europa League chasing team who ruined us in the Championship the season before). We could also easily point to the disallowed equaliser Villa scored in the last minute vs Palace earlier in the season for example - that went in too, and there was no reason at all for the ref to blow up - he said Grealish dived whilst passing the ball to Lansbury who finished first time - one of the more baffling ref decisions I've seen in some time) .

But because there is precedent there with the Tevez situation where you'll possibly get a fair amount of hush money, which should help you out next season. I've admired Bournemouth in previous years for your attacking attitude but ultimately you weren't good at all this season compared to years previous. I'm also not saying we were any good either. There were a handful of rubbish teams, and we sneaked it due to showing a bit more fight, determination and belief at the end of the season.

I'd get on the phone to PL clubs right now to look for good loan signings to cover your wantaways ASAP because when we went down, it was damn tough to bounce back. Championship team will see you as a scalp and raise their game, which may sound a bit crazy to you given you were you were a L1/2 yoyo side not ten years ago - but it happens. But the Championship is a bloody hard league to get out of and you need to prepare now. Howe needs to decide his future ASAP for the good of your club.

A decent chunk of change will of course help you here.
 
Personally think taking it to court makes us look a bit pathetic and undignified, I'd rather we leave it. Focus the time effort and money a case would involve on the more productive preparation for next season.

That incident will remain a stain on this season for the clubs and officials involved, and hawkeye themselves with a bit of trust in them already gone.
 
northstandmark said:
Personally think taking it to court makes us look a bit pathetic and undignified, I'd rather we leave it. Focus the time effort and money a case would involve on the more productive preparation for next season.

That incident will remain a stain on this season for the clubs and officials involved, and hawkeye themselves with a bit of trust in them already gone.
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Agree with you. Stinks of very sour grapes.
 
Seems sensible and correct.

Apart from the fact that the reason he didn't give the goal was because it didn't work and he didn't know it wasn't working.

So it wasn't his decision. He assumed it hadn't crossed the line and let the non-working tech make the decision for him.

Looks like a loophole in the decision making process.

Still don't think we should get all undignified and try to sue. Easy for me to say though when it isn't my £20 million.
 
Hawkeyevilla said:
Villa fan here in peace.

I hope you sue.

Not because there is any chance at all that you will be kept up at our expense. The threat of a counterclaim for not just the butterfly effect of the goal being given (Sheff Utd were frankly there for the taking that game, and we'd have gone gung ho for the win rather than playing out the last five happy with a point against a Europa League chasing team who ruined us in the Championship the season before). We could also easily point to the disallowed equaliser Villa scored in the last minute vs Palace earlier in the season for example - that went in too, and there was no reason at all for the ref to blow up - he said Grealish dived whilst passing the ball to Lansbury who finished first time - one of the more baffling ref decisions I've seen in some time) .

But because there is precedent there with the Tevez situation where you'll possibly get a fair amount of hush money, which should help you out next season. I've admired Bournemouth in previous years for your attacking attitude but ultimately you weren't good at all this season compared to years previous. I'm also not saying we were any good either. There were a handful of rubbish teams, and we sneaked it due to showing a bit more fight, determination and belief at the end of the season.

I'd get on the phone to PL clubs right now to look for good loan signings to cover your wantaways ASAP because when we went down, it was damn tough to bounce back. Championship team will see you as a scalp and raise their game, which may sound a bit crazy to you given you were you were a L1/2 yoyo side not ten years ago - but it happens. But the Championship is a bloody hard league to get out of and you need to prepare now. Howe needs to decide his future ASAP for the good of your club.

A decent chunk of change will of course help you here.
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All pretty fair. My view was always that none of the three teams deserved to stay up as we were all dreadful. Villa were the lucky one, which you could say they deserved at a push given their slightly better performance post lockdown. A really poor set of teams in general this season though.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
All pretty fair. My view was always that none of the three teams deserved to stay up as we were all dreadful. Villa were the lucky one, which you could say they deserved at a push given their slightly better performance post lockdown. A really poor set of teams in general this season though.
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Agreed. It shows up the state of the PL in general when Steve Bruce can comfortably guide a terribly bland Newcastle side to relative midtable obscurity. Any of the bottom 7/8 could easily have gone down really.

As for us, we had to rebuild an entire squad from scratch after getting promoted with so many on loan, and half of those signings have been shite. The guy who was in charge of the signings (Suso) has just been sacked.. make of that what you will. So gelling a new squad together, coupled with big injuries to our spine (only striker Wesley out for season in Nov, McGinn out for 3 months in Dec, Heaton out for season in Nov) and we looked terrible. Thank eff people like Konsa, Luiz and Conor stepped up post-lockdown. I doubt there's much chance we'll perform as badly as we did this season in 20/21.

Unless the Saudis take over at Newcastle I can see them in trouble next season. Palace, Brighton too. Mad to think that only a handful of points can mean such a difference.

I wish you all well. Bourenmouth made a real impact on the Premier League in the years you were here IMO and it's a shame the last year looked so relatively tame in comparison. From outsider's perspective, that Fraser chap has a lot to answer for. Stuff like that can be cancer at a club.
 
This is the same as sour grapes over VAR, you can't be 100% certain what would have happened had the goal been given. Villa could have one etc.....

Move on and man up, we were not good enough to stay up
 
Also have to ask, how has this gotten out to all the media, from print to TV to radio, when we know literally nothing else about what's happening at the club right now.

Clearly it's been leaked intentionally, by someone at AFCB.

Why?
 
...hope that we don't even consider mounting any sort of legal challenge, we got relegated because we just didn't win enough games and god we should have decided to join in the relegation before Leicester gave us three points!

VAR and technology is always fallible, which is why I would do away with it completely and rely on the official who are fallible too but at least keeps the sport human and not in the hands of forensic robots!

...still I guess it is too late and The PL will continue to sanitise the game and screw the fans...
 
Bucklandman said:
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...-bournemouth-relegation-premier-league-564102
Any claim doesn't look promising. Referee decision final if technology not working.
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But the whole point with goal line technology is that the referee doesn't make a decision. He (and the linesman) would not have even considered whether it went over the line because he waits for the beep on his watch. Technology is replacing refs, and what do linesmen do these days - they are basically redundant.
 
I can just see Neil Blake calling up his old police buddies and asking them to nick someone that goes by the name of ‘hawkeye’.
 
I’m struggling to see the issue with this. We obviously have some kind of case against hawkeye; it’s not like we’re mounting a challenge to stay in the league is it?
 
Taking up a case against Hawkeye is definitely not the same as taking up a legal challenge against relegation. The former is suing Hawkeye for compensation because the system/equipt didnt work, the latter is a different matter entirely.
I don't see any challenge for compensation being successful however.
 
I kind of agree with @NWCherries98 and @redharry on this... Whilst I do think moaning about relegation is sour grapes, this is nothing to do with us trying to get reinstated to the PL... This is about a club that has just lost £100m saying we were relegated by a technical mistake and for that we need you to compensate us...

As I've mentioned before, for those that argue we were relegated because we weren't good enough... well you've kind of reinforced the argument to sue Hawkeye... Because you can just as easily argue that technically we should have stayed up, because we were good enough to have finished 4th bottom...

The season is played over every minute of every game... Right to the last... It's not just about being good enough to be beyond relegation with 10 games to go and assuring safety...

Sheffield Utd (I think) got around £20m over the Tevez situation, so translate that into current monies, and you could be looking at double that in compensation...

So yes, go get your money if it is just about easing the pain of losing £100m, but lets not argue to be reinstated to the PL...
 
I think any legal claim against Hawkeye hinges on- would we all want games to be written off/ replayed every time there is a technology failure?

The whole sue/ counter-sue culture sits uncomfortably with me and has the potential to ruin the game more than VAR has. Sometimes you just have to accept a degree of luck.

In my opinion it should also come down to integrity and sportsmanship. Leeds gave Villa a goal last year because they knew it was scored unfairly. Villa had the opportunity to do the same at a less critical point of the season and didn't (albeit it may have kept them up).
 
I've been chatting about this with other mates this morning. I'm not a legal person...but I think the argument gets structured as follows:

1. It won't change relegation. And at this stage, it shouldn't.
2. It's not the same as VAR. Hawkeye reports in absolutes, was it a goal / was it not a goal. It's clear, that the ball did indeed cross the line, we can see that after the match - therefore it is a goal, and the technology has failed. Hawkeye themselves have admitted the error and apologised for it.
3. The argument that the ref decision is final isn't valid, as we can assume that the ref, and their team of assistant referees would have been waiting for their devices to indicate a goal. Could it have been referred to VAR, yes. Would that have awarded Utd the goal....no.

So what are we claiming for? If it was me, it's a claim against the PL for lost TV revenues as a direct result of technology failing during the season, that's had a direct impact on my future revenue streams. There are arguments that we don't know how the game would have unfolded, yes. But Villa didn't score, and Sheffield United did.

It's a really grey area, and one that we need to make a tight argument on if we do pursue it. I'd claim for what we'd get for 20th place in the PL next year, minus 'extra' money for televised games and look to settle from there.

Another question is if Hawkeye have added any statements in the T's and C's in using their tech that cover them for scenarios such as this. They've said that this was the first error in 9000 goals - I can calculate the failure rate of this, and some form of statistical significance and it's then a decision as to whether or not that has relevance to this argument. You'd have to assume they employ clever people to add disclaimers around this kind of stuff though.
 
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