Training ground

[SlowDownDerek]

Are you really that thick Del or just being your normal argumentative self?
It would mean there was some intent to invest for the future. No I personally would probably never even bother to visit a training ground if one were built. I would be happy in the knowledge that the club is doing it's best to attract better players, to bring forward better younger players for the future, to give the players we have the best facilities for their training and development, to potential produce the odd young star that could ultimately recoup something toward your £30m figure, to basically just show some intention that we are here for the long haul not just the next season. It was important for Eddie Howe so was he wrong to have wanted it for the club too? Is that enough reasons for you or do I need to offer you more?

Well I personally don't give a toss where they train and I don't see any convincing evidence that £30m on that would produce any more players or particularly improve us on the pitch or in attracting players.

Oh yeah it was massively important to Howe, that must be why he spunked load of money on players and the training ground was never built. Doesn't make much sense to me but then I really am that thick obviously.

 

[zigger zaggar]

Well I personally don't give a toss where they train and I don't see any convincing evidence that £30m on that would produce any more players or particularly improve us on the pitch or in attracting players.

Oh yeah it was massively important to Howe, that must be why he spunked load of money on players and the training ground was never built. Doesn't make much sense to me but then I really am that thick obviously.

So you actually think it was Eddie's decision to never build the training ground and you believe that didn't even play a small part at all in why he ultimately left?

 

[SlowDownDerek]

So you actually think it was Eddie's decision to never build the training ground and you believe that didn't even play a small part at all in why he ultimately left?

I think he would have liked it but ultimately preferred signing players. No I don't think it made any difference to him leaving at all.

Anyway, I'm a supporter and would rather they spent £35m on DC rather than nicer showers for the players and management team - the preferences of previous managers don't carry much weight for me tbh.

 

[zigger zaggar]

I think he would have liked it but ultimately preferred signing players. No I don't think it made any difference to him leaving at all.

Anyway, I'm a supporter and would rather they spent £35m on DC rather than nicer showers for the players and management team - the preferences of previous managers don't carry much weight for me tbh.

Well I agree with you for once on that. Yes I'd prefer it to be spent on DC too but the cost of a new stadium compared to the cost of a new training facility is a fair bit more. Perhaps I'm just greedy and don't see why we can't have both or at least a limited budget to share between a bit of both.

 

[SlowDownDerek]

Well I agree with you for once on that. Yes I'd prefer it to be spent on DC too but the cost of a new stadium compared to the cost of a new training facility is a fair bit more. Perhaps I'm just greedy and don't see why we can't have both or at least a limited budget to share between a bit of both.

It seems lots of fans think we can have both .. Plus a load of decent signings. Yet the guy who puts his money where his mouth is disagrees.

 

[New Forest Cherry]

Are you really that thick Del or just being your normal argumentative self?
It would mean there was some intent to invest for the future. No I personally would probably never even bother to visit a training ground if one were built. I would be happy in the knowledge that the club is doing it's best to attract better players, to bring forward better younger players for the future, to give the players we have the best facilities for their training and development, to potential produce the odd young star that could ultimately recoup something toward your £30m figure, to basically just show some intention that we are here for the long haul not just the next season. It was important for Eddie Howe so was he wrong to have wanted it for the club too? Is that enough reasons for you or do I need to offer you more?

wasn't it part of the original training ground planning application for it to be, in some part, a community asset?

 

[KingKieffer]

Just can’t see why, if in 5 years before with half a billion pounds flushing through the club why second time around would be any different.

Invest the lot in the playing squad and no guarantees of staying up.

Invest some in infrastructure and no guarantees of going down.

Every single club barring the top 6/7 are one poor season away from relegation. There’s no such thing as an established Premier League side for the vast majority.

Dorset live wrote an interesting article that explored this some time ago. It basically said that the policy was to invest in players with resale value so that if relegation does occur then money would be able to be instantly recouped in the form of player sales to provide vital cash to allow the club to operate on a day to day basis. It basically said that upon relegation the loss of income is so substantial that the club couldn’t operate day to day unless it was able to obtain extra cash from somewhere, even with the inevitable reduction in the wage bill. I have limited understanding of business but what I do know is that even a profitable business can have trouble surviving if it doesn’t have a healthy cash flow. I think the reality might be that the club needs to create as many avenues as possible to generate extra cash to safeguard against relegation.

 

[USCherry]

We obviously aren't living within our means with a 10K stadium, players coming in cost money and we arguably had a better squad leaving the PL than when we entered it, and again now going back up. I am not sure if there is some grifting going on to the tune of 100's millions of pounds but it seems to me that the cost of having a team in the PL is expensive, despite all the TV money.

We can only hope that given our squad has players with more resale value than the 14/15 squad that if we can stay up for 2-3 seasons maybe we will see investment in off field.

 

[SlowDownDerek]

We obviously aren't living within our means with a 10K stadium, players coming in cost money and we arguably had a better squad leaving the PL than when we entered it, and again now going back up. I am not sure if there is some grifting going on to the tune of 100's millions of pounds but it seems to me that the cost of having a team in the PL is expensive, despite all the TV money.

We can only hope that given our squad has players with more resale value than the 14/15 squad that if we can stay up for 2-3 seasons maybe we will see investment in off field.

Matchday income is peanuts compared to broadcasting revenue so the return on investment in the squad is likely to dwarf any return on investment in the ground. Unlike investment in players, a bigger ground won't help the team stay in the PL and won't have any resale value.

 

[MB1980]

Just can’t see why, if in 5 years before with half a billion pounds flushing through the club why second time around would be any different.

Invest the lot in the playing squad and no guarantees of staying up.

Invest some in infrastructure and no guarantees of going down.

Every single club barring the top 6/7 are one poor season away from relegation. There’s no such thing as an established Premier League side for the vast majority.

The difference is, most of them are already 'bigger' clubs, with much more stature than us.

Even if they were to go down to League 1 at some point, its highly unlikely they'll be plying themselves for long at that level.

At present we have nowhere near that stature, so if we were to drop down to League 1, theres a much higher chance we'll remain there, compared to 'bigger' current PL clubs.

The main way of building a club from 'tinpot' is to have sustained period at a higher level. Of course a bigger stadium helps, but success on the pitch is usually the best way.

If we had extra investment, then its possible we could improve/build new stadium and spend on the squad. Not sure we can do that quite yet with just Max, we certainly couldn;t 5 years ago.

The situation changes over time.

 

[MB1980]

Matchday income is peanuts compared to broadcasting revenue so the return on investment in the squad is likely to dwarf any return on investment in the ground. Unlike investment in players, a bigger ground won't help the team stay in the PL and won't have any resale value.

Exactly, the game has changed massively due to broadcasting revenue.

Also, bare in mind how much we're rumoured to be paying in rent. Its absolutely f***ing peanuts.

I get the negative of loads of fans not being able to get inm which is of course a shame.

Building a new stadium probably doesn;t make sense at all at present when the directors, owners, number crunches go over the figures. Would have massive impact on what we can spend on players, unless someone else comes in. Read an investment book a few years ago, that advised that renting under certain conditions can be the better option sometimes, and went into formulas around current market prices, interest rates, not tying capital up, using funds elsewhere etc. I imagine people at the club are doing something similar and just can't make the figures work at present.

 

[RobTrent]

When the ‘new’ stadium was built I think the original intended capacity was only about 6k. Our crowds were rubbish. Maybe the tinpot moniker starts with the loads of fans who only want to watch a winning team?
If we’d been pulling in decent attendances maybe we would have the billionaire owner we want?

 

[AFCBade]

Plus, from Max's point of view, the longer we can stay in the PL the easier it should be for him to find a co-investor to take some of the weight off his own wallet, which I would imagine is what he is secretly dreaming of.

I can fully understand things from the owner's point of view and am grateful that he is happy to invest the PL riches in ( hopefully ) improving the standard of AFCB's playing staff rather than milking the squad dry and simply cashing out.

As I mentioned earlier, it wasn't a disaster last time. We had a long spell in the PL, came down into the Championship, sold a couple of our prized assets, which enabled us to buy the players the incumbent managers felt they needed, which resulted in a promotion back to the PL after two seasons.

Max might not have a lot of AFCB infrastructure improvements to his name but he does seem to be viewing maintaining the highest standard of football possible at the club as a priority, which really is in the best interest of the fans and the football club. He seems to be a football fan and a football man, so credit to him for that.

we have had two competive seasons in the champ that we could only have dreamt about a few years ago. In part this is due to the prem money that many claimed had no legacy. To get us back within 2 seasons is an impressive feat especially when look at how so many clubs have failed to do so and have even dropped further.

 

[redharry]

When the ‘new’ stadium was built I think the original intended capacity was only about 6k. Our crowds were rubbish. Maybe the tinpot moniker starts with the loads of fans who only want to watch a winning team?
If we’d been pulling in decent attendances maybe we would have the billionaire owner we want?

I know we are tinpot Rob but not that tinpot. I think the 6,000 capacity is what we actually opened the new ground with - just the Main Stand and North Stand were open for the first few games. We then jumped to about 9,600 when the East Stand opened. The original plans were for capacity of 12,000 with a South Stand identical to the North with a capacity of 2,400. Obviously the South Stand got canned when we ran out of money - again !!!

 

[Sandman2]

The difference is, most of them are already 'bigger' clubs, with much more stature than us.

Even if they were to go down to League 1 at some point, its highly unlikely they'll be plying themselves for long at that level.

At present we have nowhere near that stature, so if we were to drop down to League 1, theres a much higher chance we'll remain there, compared to 'bigger' current PL clubs.

The main way of building a club from 'tinpot' is to have sustained period at a higher level. Of course a bigger stadium helps, but success on the pitch is usually the best way.

If we had extra investment, then its possible we could improve/build new stadium and spend on the squad. Not sure we can do that quite yet with just Max, we certainly couldn;t 5 years ago.

The situation changes over time.

Some good points there. Success on the pitch will certainty help promote the club, but if we are forever only to play in a stadium for 10k, how does the club actually grow in stature? There is zero opportunity for any new (or even some long term) supporters to regularly watch their team. We simply are unable to physically grow our home support. This is a real shame, as there is another thread on this forum for average away attendances where we have shown our away support has been really good, particularly bearing in mind we have to set off from the South Coast to Lancashire and Yorkshire on many occasions.

I agree that Max seems to have absolutely no intention to improve the off-field situation. Let's hope he can get someone else on board to enable the club to finally fulfil its potential, which I think is considerably more than some on this forum realise.

 

[SteveJonesLegend]

When the ‘new’ stadium was built I think the original intended capacity was only about 6k. Our crowds were rubbish. Maybe the tinpot moniker starts with the loads of fans who only want to watch a winning team?
If we’d been pulling in decent attendances maybe we would have the billionaire owner we want?

Agree Rob, but how many seasons of selling out do you have to go through before there is a new benchmark…? I think we’ve officially sold out at home for around 8 seasons now with our away support increasing massively over the same duration…

The fan base has unquestionably increased and increased by a significant number…

I see one of the first things Forest have done since gaining promotion is put in planning applications for new stands at the City Ground…

 

[DJ]

Some good points there. Success on the pitch will certainty help promote the club, but if we are forever only to play in a stadium for 10k, how does the club actually grow in stature? There is zero opportunity for any new (or even some long term) supporters to regularly watch their team. We simply are unable to physically grow our home support. This is a real shame, as there is another thread on this forum for average away attendances where we have shown our away support has been really good, particularly bearing in mind we have to set off from the South Coast to Lancashire and Yorkshire on many occasions.

I agree that Max seems to have absolutely no intention to improve the off-field situation. Let's hope he can get someone else on board to enable the club to finally fulfil its potential, which I think is considerably more than some on this forum realise.

Agree with all of this other than I think Max in an ideal world would like to do the training ground and stadium. He just needs added investment to do so.

If a new training ground is what unlocks Kings Park to open the opportunity of a new stadium then the Premier League money could go a long way towards making a few phased steps.

 

[dragonm8]

The visitors need 10% of capacity. They currently have between 1300-1400 seats, if I remember correctly, which means we can increase to 13,000-14,000 with no need to change the away allocation

Same amount of season ticket holders who don't turn up on matchday.

 

[paul49]

You could argue that it is inevitable that we will come back down at some point be it in 1 or 5 years time so why spend all our funds on transfer fees and wages.

Would it not be more sensible to develop our training facilities and Academy set up to produce our own players for our next shot at the promised land and accept that we have just a season or so in the sun.

 

[zigger zaggar]

You could argue that it is inevitable that we will come back down at some point be it in 1 or 5 years time so why spend all our funds on transfer fees and wages.

Would it not be more sensible to develop our training facilities and Academy set up to produce our own players for our next shot at the promised land and accept that we have just a season or so in the sun.

Of course it would be the much more sensible blindingly obvious way to go but you can't get that through to the "I'm all right Jack I've got my season ticket and I want to see us compete against the best with some marquee signings" types on here.