F uck the Nazis

Smithy said:
Taking the knee is controversial. Sterling says it’s a powerful message. Zaha says it is degrading. Les Ferdinand says it is now no more than a pin badge. Because of its association with BLM it is like gold dust to racists. Actions rather than gestures are what really counts. Obviously for players there is little they can do in terms of actions so they are left with gestures. Hopefully someone can come up with a gesture, or better still an action, that all except racists can unite behind. There is much disagreement on this message board and I doubt (hope) that none intend to be racist.
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Ask yourself where those who are booing and those who defend the booing lie on the political spectrum and I think you’ll find them in the “I’m not racist but......” category.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
Can we please cut out this "association with" crap? Only racists pretend that making a stand (or kneeling/wearing tshirts) against racism is political.

I remember how the thread about not being allowed to wear poppies on the England shirts went. It was wrong by FIFA then and its wrong by the boo'ers now.
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This "association with" started by associating England fans with Nazis...

If you support kick it out and have put yourself in harm's way to stand up to racist abuse but don't like BLM are you still a Nazi?

If paolo di canio did his facist salute and claimed the reason for it was to end child poverty would you feel the same way?

Edit: just to add groups like the EDL have marches against "leaniant treatment of pedophile gangs". Your argument presented from this angle is that if you don't support the EDL you're in favour of pedophilia. It's just childish and reductive.
 
Kudos said:
This "association with" started by associating England fans with Nazis...

If you support kick it out and have put yourself in harm's way to stand up to racist abuse but don't like BLM are you still a Nazi?

If paolo di canio did his facist salute and claimed the reason for it was to end child poverty would you feel the same way?

Edit: just to add groups like the EDL have marches against "leaniant treatment of pedophile gangs". Your argument presented from this angle is that if you don't support the EDL you're in favour of pedophilia. It's just childish and reductive.
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It was the booers being associated with Nazis not England fans.

A fascist salute is a fascist salute. There's no association with kneeling and Marxism other than a handful of people trying to push that narrative to disguise their opposition to anti-racism.

It's the opposite of your last point. You can agree with a point being made without agreeing with the wider politics of the people making that point.
 
Kudos said:
This "association with" started by associating England fans with Nazis...

If you support kick it out and have put yourself in harm's way to stand up to racist abuse but don't like BLM are you still a Nazi?

If paolo di canio did his facist salute and claimed the reason for it was to end child poverty would you feel the same way?
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The difference is that a Nazi salute is a universal symbol of oppression. Taking the knee has many interpretations, but the England players' take on it has been clarified on multiple occasions. So if you continue to boo at this point then you are doing it in full knowledge of what it stands for.

If, in some parallel universe the Nazi salute lost all its historical connotations and was for some reason adopted by a child poverty movement (yes these are the mental gymnastics you are asking us to make here) then yes I would feel the same way.
 
stanthevan said:
Ask yourself where those who are booing and those who defend the booing lie on the political spectrum and I think you’ll find them in the “I’m not racist but......” category.
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You seem to imply that those on the left are righteous and those on the right abhorrent. This infers a linear political spectrum. My view is that the spectrum is circular and that those on the far left have much in common with the far right. For example the far lefts anti-semantic racist view.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I said there is no parallel. There's no scenario where white people would feel the need to start a movement highlighting how they are a systematically mistreated minority.

You created a hypothetical scenario that would never happen and then said it would be called racist. For what purpose?
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Civil rights movement in Northern ireland?
Suffragettes?
Tolpuddle martyrs?
 
Red Sky said:
but the England players' take on it has been clarified on multiple occasions.
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This is pretty much irrelevant though and we will always have this debate until people start to listen to those who boo. Yes, some will be racist sadly but I bet you most won't be at all. Kneeling will forever be linked to the BLM organisation, which has likely put race relations back years. There are less than desirable elements to some linked to the organisation and its quite simple, that many decent people do not support those elements.

The players can't steal an action and a slogan linked to the organisation and just state 'its nothing to do with it'! All this has done is divide people again, when we need to all be together on this. But the more people at the top, look down on those who boo and don't listen to any reasons for this, booing will just get worse if anything. It's a bit like the whole Brexit debate all over again - people must be stupid and racist if they boo kneeling. Again, I am sure there are some that are both stupid and racist - but the vast majority won't be, fairly certain of this.

My strong feeling is that if the players came up with a gesture they could all support [ bearing in mind those black players that are now against kneeling too ] - something like standing for ten seconds....'taking a stand against abuse'.....the booing will stop. But lets make it wider.....against abuse of players and people online....against homophobic abuse....

But please.....lets stop lazily labelling the people who boo as racists.
 
stanthevan said:
Ask yourself where those who are booing and those who defend the booing lie on the political spectrum and I think you’ll find them in the “I’m not racist but......” category.
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To make my point about my hatred of racists, I'll make a racist comparison of my own.

Well done stan, great point.
 
davygravy said:
This is pretty much irrelevant though and we will always have this debate until people start to listen to those who boo. Yes, some will be racist sadly but I bet you most won't be at all. Kneeling will forever be linked to the BLM organisation, which has likely put race relations back years. There are less than desirable elements to some linked to the organisation and its quite simple, that many decent people do not support those elements.

The players can't steal an action and a slogan linked to the organisation and just state 'its nothing to do with it'! All this has done is divide people again, when we need to all be together on this. But the more people at the top, look down on those who boo and don't listen to any reasons for this, booing will just get worse if anything. It's a bit like the whole Brexit debate all over again - people must be stupid and racist if they boo kneeling. Again, I am sure there are some that are both stupid and racist - but the vast majority won't be, fairly certain of this.

My strong feeling is that if the players came up with a gesture they could all support [ bearing in mind those black players that are now against kneeling too ] - something like standing for ten seconds....'taking a stand against abuse'.....the booing will stop. But lets make it wider.....against abuse of players and people online....against homophobic abuse....

But please.....lets stop lazily labelling the people who boo as racists.
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Total nonsense, BLM don't own a thing. Context is everything and the context has been explained.

Therefore people booing are either racist, willfully ignorant, or both.
 
I'm going to boo in the face of Republican, Stan and Dragonm8 and they will do absolutely nothing- all snout no clout, filth informer types, ratty.
 
There will be plenty of murders or intended murders this year committed on British people, mainly on white Christians, by foreign religious extremists...that fact seems to have faded into the background for now.

Ok. I'll bite.

What is this fact?
Do you have any information that might help me understand this?
What is an intended murder?
Be grateful for any information that helps me understand what this means.
 
fritter said:
There will be plenty of murders or intended murders this year committed on British people, mainly on white Christians, by foreign religious extremists...that fact seems to have faded into the background for now.

Ok. I'll bite.

What is this fact?
Do you have any information that might help me understand this?
What is an intended murder?
Be grateful for any information that helps me understand what this means.
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No need to bite ...just look back over events in London and Manchester these past few years..deaths at the hands of terrorists...on Our streets...in an Arena...kids watching a music show.
Death from murderous religious fanatics !

We cannot rest assured that these events won't be repeated.
What on earth are you smoking ..to deny it happens ?
 
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