Investigation into training

Topfarrier said:
Possibly!!.....:D....i'm sorry Neil but i was thinking that this was a debate on why [according to you] we haven't upgraded our fitness coaches since league 1....now it turns out you have no idea if we have or not!.... :slap:

Is this the reason why you now appear to be trying to steer the debate more towards the ability of our coaching staff?
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It’s all interlinked. We frequently run more kms than other teams. That will often be down to a tactical set up or style of play. Klopps high press is impossible for some players for example. All of it is applicable to strain on players bodies.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
It may well be a good idea to bring in X or Y coach - they are conducting a review as one would assume they do all the time.

My issue with what you say is you've confidently diagnosed the problem despite having no clue whatsoever what goes on behind the scenes. You don't know what is behind our success or our weaknesses - how could you? These criticisms of yours that we don't have some unnamed coach that will make everything better are all too easy - same as when the unnamed signings that our "failed transfer policy (TM)" were ten times better than our actual signings.

Clearly they need to constantly evolve and ask questions. They need to review their playing, coaching and medical staff to make sure they are up to it. It seems as if this is exactly what they are doing if the Sun is right. We'll never know the details though so making broad brush generalisations based on the very limited information we do know about these people seems pretty pointless to me.
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I haven’t confidently diagnosed anything. I have as little an idea as you what goes on.

It’s just my supposition. Key Players not improving, tactics wrong defensively, lack of consistency (eddies words). The players themselves have shown on several occasions they are more than capable of better so playing personnel is not the issue. To me your start point here therefore is coaching... I think we are both agreed on that.

My supposition is we need A FEW (not a wholesale German crew ;)) people with different views from this level.

Your supposition is we don’t (or might) but the team will work that out.

Isn’t that where we are at?
 
Neil Dawson said:
I haven’t confidently diagnosed anything. I have as little an idea as you what goes on.

It’s just my supposition. Key Players not improving, tactics wrong defensively, lack of consistency (eddies words). The players themselves have shown on several occasions they are more than capable of better so playing personnel is not the issue. To me your start point here therefore is coaching... I think we are both agreed on that.

My supposition is we need A FEW (not a wholesale German crew ;)) people with different views from this level.

Your supposition is we don’t (or might) but the team will work that out.

Isn’t that where we are at?
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My supposition is that neither of us can possibly know what needs to happen but that clearly whatever they are doing is along the right lines. They need to have a look at injuries and defensive problems but the solution to that is as likely to be changing the teabags as it is changing the coaching staff for all I know.

Btw didn't you say the problem was the playing staff up until this season? And if I remember that was down to ... drumroll ... Eddie's mates from the lower leagues in the team and key recruitment positions.
 
Oh its all interlinked....i thought it might be....:rolleyes:.....i would have thought style of play and tactical set up is the domain of the manager .....unless you want to rename the 'Klopp press' you mention as the 'Klopp coaching and fitness staff press' of course....:confused:
The fact is none of us know how good our coaching or fitness staff are except the people who work with them.
As a fan looking in from the outside you can point at our injury record this season and form an uneducated opinion that they aren't very good or you can point to the fact that our players can run further than any other team and have a style of play that is both entertaining and competitive in the best league in Europe as evidence that they are extremely good at what they do.....i know which side of that divide i'm on tbh.
 
Topfarrier said:
Oh its all interlinked....i thought it might be....:rolleyes:.....i would have thought style of play and tactical set up is the domain of the manager .....unless you want to rename the 'Klopp press' you mention as the 'Klopp coaching and fitness staff press' of course....:confused:
The fact is none of us know how good our coaching or fitness staff are except the people who work with them.
As a fan looking in from the outside you can point at our injury record this season and form an uneducated opinion that they aren't very good or you can point to the fact that our players can run further than any other team and have a style of play that is both entertaining and competitive in the best league in Europe as evidence that they are extremely good at what they do.....i know which side of that divide i'm on tbh.
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I know. Like I’ve said this isn’t about us being in a dreadful position, it’s about what we need to improve. Can’t we discuss that without being sacrilegious to Eddie?
 
Neil Dawson said:
I know. Like I’ve said this isn’t about us being in a dreadful position, it’s about what we need to improve. Can’t we discuss that without being sacrilegious to Eddie?
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Well i certainly can........the fact is what is there to debate? if we don't know who all our fitness coaches are and don't see how our coaching staff work....it's impossible to form a credible opinion....imo
 
SlowDownDerek said:
My supposition is that neither of us can possibly know what needs to happen but that clearly whatever they are doing is along the right lines. They need to have a look at injuries and defensive problems but the solution to that is as likely to be changing the teabags as it is changing the coaching staff for all I know.

Btw didn't you say the problem was the playing staff up until this season? And if I remember that was down to ... drumroll ... Eddie's mates from the lower leagues in the team and key recruitment positions.
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The players we came up with have largely given us the PL stability. As someone else documented on the 25 or 20% thread the ones that have come in under Hughes have been more miss than hit. As those stalwarts have moved on or got injured we have seen that what is left is questionable ( the run since November). However, all fit the squad is a strong mid-table squad.
Topfarrier said:
Well i certainly can........the fact is what is there to debate? if we don't know who all our fitness coaches are and don't see how our coaching staff work....it's impossible to form a credible opinion....imo
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What you can’t judge their output on the lack of consistency or tactical defensive set up on the pitch? Would you say we were well coached under Groves? Would you say we were poorly coached in Eddies championship winning season?

I think you can more than certainly have a credible opinion without seeing what goes on behind the scenes. What you can’t do is have a definitive answer, I accept that.
 
Neil Dawson said:
The players we came up with have largely given us the PL stability. As someone else documented on the 25 or 20% thread the ones that have come in under Hughes have been more miss than hit. As those stalwarts have moved on or got injured we have seen that what is left is questionable ( the run since November). However, all fit the squad is a strong mid-table squad.


What you can’t judge their output on the lack of consistency or tactical defensive set up on the pitch? Would you say we were well coached under Groves? Would you say we were poorly coached in Eddies championship winning season?

I think you can more than certainly have a credible opinion without seeing what goes on behind the scenes. What you can’t do is have a definitive answer, I accept that.
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I think you can have an opinion on Groves and Eddies ability as manager's certainly but as for the coaching staff i've no idea.
Obviously Groves was just a very unlucky manager..:oops:... and we are being coached in the same manner now as we were in Eddies Championship winning season....iyo.....;)
 
Topfarrier said:
I think you can have an opinion on Groves and Eddies ability as manager's certainly but as for the coaching staff i've no idea.
Obviously Groves was just a very unlucky manager..:oops:... and we are being coached in the same manner now as we were in Eddies Championship winning season....iyo.....;)
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One man can only do so much. JT was harrangued when he worked for Quinn but worshipped when he worked for Eddie. I think we all agree on Eddie (and Groves) ability. Most teams change their managers when they want new ideas... we certainly don’t want to do that. That’s why adding new ideas elsewhere has always appealed to me. I think Eddie has appeared stumped this year at times and has admitted it himself. I’d look for new support if I were him without losing the majority of my confidants.
 
Well, if anybody wants to do up a report on the training staff and their qualifications, go for it.
For starters, here's Dan Hodges' (head of Sports Science) Linkedin page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-hodges-4a59482a/?trk=public-profile-join-page
He has a Masters degree in exercise and sports science from Manchester Metropolitan University. (I have never heard of that university so have no idea what to make of that)
It would seem to me that if we want to be a really top club, we should be encouraging supporting people with "science" in their job titles to get PhDs, or we should be hiring people who already have them. Not to say that Dan isn't doing a great job, but as a PL club we need the best of the best both on and off the field.
 
billythekid said:
https://www.afcb.co.uk/teams/staff-profiles
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From a quick look at that list we appear to have PL coaching experience from Manchester City, a PhD in Goalkeeping Coaching, medical experience from the S. African rugby team, private sector experience from an elite sports medicine facility in Doha and a Portuguese coach with playing and coaching experience in six countries. Plus there's plenty of undergad and master's degrees from a variety of institutions in there.

While we can demand that we hire staff who've worked at better, more established PL teams, I don't see why they'd come to Bournemouth unless they are at earlier stages in their careers or working in more junior roles. In which case they'd have more limited experience than what we already have.

I agree that getting new people as you grow is beneficial, but they have to offer something that your current staff don't. Identifying these gaps will likely be one of the objectives of this mythical review, and then a decision will be taken as to whether the best way to fill them is to up-skill current staff or try to get in a specialist. Based on the staff profiles it looks like we've been doing that for a decade.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
No, as soon as my company got to the big time I'd sack everyone including myself and replace them with people who have manage a big company in Germany. ;)
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I don’t remember where Neil said "Sack all backroom staff". :)

I agree with Neil though that we need an experienced ex PL coach to add his game knowledge and know-how to an already competent staff, but who seem to need some new ideas.
 
tednphil said:
I don’t remember where Neil said "Sack all backroom staff". :)

I agree with Neil though that we need an experienced ex PL coach to add his game knowledge and know-how to an already competent staff, but who seem to need some new ideas.
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Any idea who this out of work PL experienced coach might be?.....As Klaus has said above any coach that would be an upgrade on what we have would undoubtedly be out of our reach.
 
tednphil said:
I don’t remember where Neil said "Sack all backroom staff". :)

I agree with Neil though that we need an experienced ex PL coach to add his game knowledge and know-how to an already competent staff, but who seem to need some new ideas.
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Is what you are saying Tednphil that we should sack everyone including Eddie tonight and replace them all with anyone who has had a half decent season in the German second division? It would really help if you could explain yourself better as I find it really hard to understand a view that isn’t official club policy ;)
 
Neil Dawson said:
Is what you are saying Tednphil that we should sack everyone including Eddie tonight and replace them all with anyone who has had a half decent season in the German second division? It would really help if you could explain yourself better as I find it really hard to understand a view that isn’t official club policy ;)
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You are Donald Trump and I claim my $5.
 
tednphil said:
I don’t remember where Neil said "Sack all backroom staff". :)

I agree with Neil though that we need an experienced ex PL coach to add his game knowledge and know-how to an already competent staff, but who seem to need some new ideas.
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See I can understand people when they say "we need a new left back" because they've probably seen the left back options we've got and have decided we need better. Same goes when they say we need a new manager, because the tactics they can see on the pitch aren't working.

But "we need a new PL experienced coach" is just a baseless comment - nobody can possibly know what we need unless they've seen them train. It's easy to say we need a different coach, it can't be proven wrong - I could say we need a new nutritionist or physio just as easily but it would also be based on no knowledge whatsoever.
 
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