Investigation into training

[QUOTE="SlowDownDerek, post: 277431, member: It's easy to say we need a different coach, it can't be proven wrong.[/QUOTE]

But as you keep pointing out it can’t be proved right either which makes it less easy to say.

Nothing can be proven right or wrong. Even if you think we need a new right back which as you say is more visible but the manager disagrees are you right? If a tree falls in the forest when nobody is there....:grinning:

I think it’s possible to take a holistic view at a set of circumstances and come up with an opinion. I think we need new inputs but don’t want to do what most clubs do when they want new inputs. I totally understand why you disagree as I’m not 100% sure myself for obvious reasons.

If you want ‘proof’ though a fans forum is the last place to be reading.
 
Neil Dawson said:
But as you keep pointing out it can’t be proved right either which makes it less easy to say.

Nothing can be proven right or wrong. Even if you think we need a new right back which as you say is more visible but the manager disagrees are you right? If a tree falls in the forest when nobody is there....:grinning:

I think it’s possible to take a holistic view at a set of circumstances and come up with an opinion. I think we need new inputs but don’t want to do what most clubs do when they want new inputs. I totally understand why you disagree as I’m not 100% sure myself for obvious reasons.

If you want ‘proof’ though a fans forum is the last place to be reading.
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Fair enough but my issue is that you appear to have picked out a problem and then tried to find an issue that it is causing.

Clearly we are unusual in that we have a close-knit backroom team many of whom have known each other a long time. Now that may be a good thing or a bad thing. I would argue it's a good thing because clearly the strength of our club is the man himself and the team he has built up. We're a tinpot outfit that are smashing it in the big league so clearly something about how he's doing it is exceptional and it may well be that it's because he's surrounded himself with people he knows and trusts.

You however have identified this close-knit backroom staff as a problem and you seem intent on blaming every issue we have on it. "Failed transfer policy"? That's because Eddie's mates are working for the club. Conceding goals? Eddie's mates. 4-4-2? Eddie's mates. Injuries? Eddie's mates. Players not improving year-on-year? Eddie's mates. Franno getting picked to start? Eddie's mate. I can't remember if you've blamed the queues outside the east stand on our close-knit backroom staff or not but it wouldn't surprise me.

Maybe we're both right and that the backroom staff are as much responsible for our success as they are our failures. If that's true then I would argue that essentially I am right, because we are the best we've ever been.
 
I don't think Neil's saying the close-knit-ness of the backroom staff is the problem, but rather the (perceived) lack of willingness to bring in a bit of new blood and new ideas.
 
canadiancherry said:
I don't think Neil's saying the close-knit-ness of the backroom staff is the problem, but rather the (perceived) lack of willingness to bring in a bit of new blood and new ideas.
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Call it what you like - Eddie clearly thinks the people he's got are up to the job and that he has all the new ideas he needs. If he thinks it needs changing he will change it. It's very difficult for anyone on the outside to say he's wrong.
 
canadiancherry said:
I don't think Neil's saying the close-knit-ness of the backroom staff is the problem, but rather the (perceived) lack of willingness to bring in a bit of new blood and new ideas.
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Sorry but what exactly is ' the problem ' ? Neil seems to have invented this 'problem' and lays claim to it as he has done with various other alleged 'problems' over the last decade or so.

When the club get relegated there will be one really smug bloke on here, well perhaps two I dunno. As soon as we accept that Eddies style means we will always concede, that the nature of the club means we will never sign the best players and perhaps because they arent the best they have to work harder in order to compete at this level (more Injuries ?).... then, only then we may get some sort of acceptance of where the club is and what the club is all about.
 
Eddie is a Cherries fan through and through like the rest of us.

Unlike us he has used to skills and knowledge to gradually build this club up on the field by bringing us through the divisions with the help of our owner.

He has ex players on his backroom staff who share his enthusiasm to build this club further, but he did bring other people in as well as on the staff link on another post.

Look at some of the clubs who have gained promotion this year, their managers have connections with their club.

Then look behind the scenes of other Premier League clubs and you will find people who used to play for those clubs working there.

Getting a team of people working together who have the same belief in their club is a plus for me.

Bring in outsiders who have no connection or actual interest in the club could also be a plus, but they may be the first to leave as well if another job came up.

Consistency on and off the pitch is important.
 
red_house said:
Sorry but what exactly is ' the problem ' ?
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I don’t think there is a problem but there’s certainly a debate to be had.

Whenever we lose there is always an overreaction. Once people have calmed down, just like the staff would do, a sober analysis is done on most fans message boards. In particular are there any recurring themes in our results or performances.

Some might say it’s purely “the way we play”. That’s a perfectly valid view to take on some of our defeats. Not one I personally agree with as I feel we’ve been a lot more conservative

Or is it our general tactical setup? Are the formation, level of organisation or team selection wrong? If this is the case then it’s on the Manager ultimately.

Instead the players might not be good enough? If we believe that then it’s only fair to question the recruitment.

What if the players are good enough but not performing? Do they lack motivation or have they just not been coached to understand the game as much as we would like. If you believe this then either there has been a flaw in recruitment for not picking up a potential lack of motivation or intelligence. Alternatively if players aren’t developing, it’s only fair to question the coaching.

I’ve highlighted a number of potential issues. You would have to be an absolute idiot to think we were flawed in each and every one of them. Most people would recognise there is room for improvement all round.

I don’t like people highlighting every single aspect of the club and claiming it’s sub-standard. Our performances and results prove that to be nonsense. But also I can’t take seriously people who will defend our coaching, tactics, recruitment etc at all costs.

Personally I think there is some merit to the argument our staff lack experience of top flight football. The balance to be had is if we change too much we lose the identity which has made us so successful.

If you think about it, our guard has slowly been phased out and replaced by a group who are mostly Internationals. The transition has been surprisingly smooth compared to most teams. It’s not unreasonable to suggest a similar slow but smooth transition of of our backroom staff might be necessary too.
 
Tinpot Club said:
Personally I think there is some merit to the argument our staff lack experience of top flight football. The balance to be had is if we change too much we lose the identity which has made us so successful.

If you think about it, our guard has slowly been phased out and replaced by a group who are mostly Internationals. The transition has been surprisingly smooth compared to most teams. It’s not unreasonable to suggest a similar slow but smooth transition of of our backroom staff might be necessary too.
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We can hardly argue the staff lack experience of top flight football approaching five years in the top league in the world. As for a transition of backroom staff , we have seen changes haven't we ? The issue is that the OP appears to think changes would solve the issues that every club below the top two appear to be having ?

The whole league (apart from City and Liverpool) appear to be in some kind of crisis mode. Look on every forum and there is an expert suggesting this that and the other. It's called debate, I get it but when you actually drill down to the clubs current position I would say the back room staff and management have done a brilliant job.

We have no idea who may or may not be advising Eddie or the rest of the staff. They don't have to be on the permanent pay roll, it could just be happening in every department and it probably is.
 
Tinpot Club said:
I don’t think there is a problem but there’s certainly a debate to be had.

Whenever we lose there is always an overreaction. Once people have calmed down, just like the staff would do, a sober analysis is done on most fans message boards. In particular are there any recurring themes in our results or performances.

Some might say it’s purely “the way we play”. That’s a perfectly valid view to take on some of our defeats. Not one I personally agree with as I feel we’ve been a lot more conservative

Or is it our general tactical setup? Are the formation, level of organisation or team selection wrong? If this is the case then it’s on the Manager ultimately.

Instead the players might not be good enough? If we believe that then it’s only fair to question the recruitment.

What if the players are good enough but not performing? Do they lack motivation or have they just not been coached to understand the game as much as we would like. If you believe this then either there has been a flaw in recruitment for not picking up a potential lack of motivation or intelligence. Alternatively if players aren’t developing, it’s only fair to question the coaching.

I’ve highlighted a number of potential issues. You would have to be an absolute idiot to think we were flawed in each and every one of them. Most people would recognise there is room for improvement all round.

I don’t like people highlighting every single aspect of the club and claiming it’s sub-standard. Our performances and results prove that to be nonsense. But also I can’t take seriously people who will defend our coaching, tactics, recruitment etc at all costs.

Personally I think there is some merit to the argument our staff lack experience of top flight football. The balance to be had is if we change too much we lose the identity which has made us so successful.

If you think about it, our guard has slowly been phased out and replaced by a group who are mostly Internationals. The transition has been surprisingly smooth compared to most teams. It’s not unreasonable to suggest a similar slow but smooth transition of of our backroom staff might be necessary too.
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Excellent post and spot on :clap:

It’s always frustrating that any questioning of the status quo is shot down instantly as disloyal to what is an incredible achievement. Surely it goes without saying we all know we are part of something incredible, unprecedented and unlikely to be repeated for us. Now we are are in that position do we look to challenge ourselves and push on or do we just remain tied to our past?

The answer to me is that we do both and we just need to slightly tweak where we are at present.

Hopefully that also helps answer Redhouse the question of what is wrong. In the big scheme of our history nothing is wrong. In the last thirty games though there have been signs that things are not as good as they have been and we need to react to that. Who knows what the answer is but the OP is my perspective on it.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Hopefully that also helps answer Redhouse the question of what is wrong. In the big scheme of our history nothing is wrong. In the last thirty games though there have been signs that things are not as good as they have been and we need to react to that. Who knows what the answer is but the OP is my perspective on it.
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How long have you been banging on about a change of staff ? It seems like an eternity.

To suggest that Eddie doesn't explore these issues is a little odd. We have no idea whats happening behind the scenes. You appear to have gone into some kind of overload since seeing John Terry whispering in Dean Smiths ear and thinking that's somehow the answer.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Excellent post and spot on :clap:

It’s always frustrating that any questioning of the status quo is shot down instantly as disloyal to what is an incredible achievement. Surely it goes without saying we all know we are part of something incredible, unprecedented and unlikely to be repeated for us. Now we are are in that position do we look to challenge ourselves and push on or do we just remain tied to our past?

The answer to me is that we do both and we just need to slightly tweak where we are at present.

Hopefully that also helps answer Redhouse the question of what is wrong. In the big scheme of our history nothing is wrong. In the last thirty games though there have been signs that things are not as good as they have been and we need to react to that. Who knows what the answer is but the OP is my perspective on it.
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You're not being accused of being disloyal you're being accused of making up a problem that you can't possibly know exists. If you criticise his tactics it's fair enough because you've seen the team play and have legit opinions on what went wrong. Same goes for his recruitment, you've seen the players he signs (although you do have a tendency to make up hypothetical players that are better than the ones he actually signs).

If you're saying we need a new coach because the current coaches aren't up to the job you are criticising for the sake of it because you have no idea what goes on in the coaching department and who is good or bad. The fact that you've used the same 'eddie's mates' line to attack every aspect of his set-up only adds to the evidence that it's criticism for the sake of it.

You say about the last 30 games but it's been four seasons now with the same criticisms. One day we'll go down and you'll say "I told you so" ignoring the fact that he's proven you wrong for years.
 
Tinpot Club said:
If you think about it, our guard has slowly been phased out and replaced by a group who are mostly Internationals. The transition has been surprisingly smooth compared to most teams. It’s not unreasonable to suggest a similar slow but smooth transition of of our backroom staff might be necessary too.
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Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - none of us know. If he never changes the backroom staff and keeps us up for ten years then everyone will be lauding the consistency and continuity behind the scenes as the reason he's done so well.

If Josh King had stuck that pen against Wolves away and tracked Matt Ritchie against Newcastle we'd be celebrating our best ever season and there would be none of this 'last 30 games' talk. I'm sure he would have if only we had John Terry on the bench.
 
I think a lot of us just feel like last season there was something “not quite right” .Yes I know we stayed up yet again quite comfortably and we’re entering unbelievably our fifth season ,we have fantastic players and of course an awesome manager we’re obviously spoilt rotten as Bournemouth fans but fears for next season were mentioned a lot .Perhaps that’s why posters are talking about training ,coaching etc ...because we can’t quite put our finger on what bothered us about last season .
 
I can tell everyone something for nothing....if we dont improve on our defensive duties ..and we know thats the problem....it will be our downfall ...our luck will run out up front...thats all it will take!
And all the talk about.. we would have the means to get back up quickly .a squad built to do that etc...pah !.. forget it...the blow of relegation would be just too much after a run of 7 or 8 seasons being successful..the remaining of the present bunch of players would not hack it.......we would ride the line downwards like a Bullet train to Divvy 2 !
This was why it was important to have built that Stadium....it would have focused the players to buy into the permanance idea ! We could have kicked on and built to the size of Chelsea....and thereafter Barcelona!
You get a Project going...you finish it!
Some of us will be able to handle failure to progress....many will not.
Some of us will be able to handle a trip to non-league..very many will not !
 
wallmth said:
I think a lot of us just feel like last season there was something “not quite right” .Yes I know we stayed up yet again quite comfortably and we’re entering unbelievably our fifth season ,we have fantastic players and of course an awesome manager we’re obviously spoilt rotten as Bournemouth fans but fears for next season were mentioned a lot .Perhaps that’s why posters are talking about training ,coaching etc ...because we can’t quite put our finger on what bothered us about last season .
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Fears for next season? The same fears I've read about on here every summer since 2013.

My only fear is when the toilet roll runs out in the East Stand.
 
Fergie....Klopp....Wenger....Mourinho...are among some of the best managers the PL has had....none had top level playing experience...I guess they all did their courses, passed their badges, improved their knowledge....along the way. Nothing to suggest any of our backroom team haven't been able to also improve their skills.
 
davygravy said:
Fergie....Klopp....Wenger....Mourinho...are among some of the best managers the PL has had....none had top level playing experience...I guess they all did their courses, passed their badges, improved their knowledge....along the way. Nothing to suggest any of our backroom team haven't been able to also improve their skills.
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Ah yes but Fergie constantly changed his ..........nah forget it.....:D
 
SlowDownDerek said:
You're not being accused of being disloyal you're being accused of making up a problem that you can't possibly know exists. If you criticise his tactics it's fair enough because you've seen the team play and have legit opinions on what went wrong. Same goes for his recruitment, you've seen the players he signs (although you do have a tendency to make up hypothetical players that are better than the ones he actually signs).

If you're saying we need a new coach because the current coaches aren't up to the job you are criticising for the sake of it because you have no idea what goes on in the coaching department and who is good or bad. The fact that you've used the same 'eddie's mates' line to attack every aspect of his set-up only adds to the evidence that it's criticism for the sake of it.

You say about the last 30 games but it's been four seasons now with the same criticisms. One day we'll go down and you'll say "I told you so" ignoring the fact that he's proven you wrong for years.
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Usual hyperbolic misinterpretation.

I’ve never said we will go down. I’ve always said if we keep Eddie we will stay up. So if we go down he will be proving me wrong not right.

It is perfectly possible to look at a set of issues and question whether an imbalanced backroom team might be the cause. I accept you don’t believe this to be the case and like I said earlier I respect that view because I’m not 100% sure myself.
 
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