Non - Brexit

wallmth said:
Join the Brexiteers Derek you know you want to :clap:
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I've always said I was 60/40 in favour of remain and I've not changed much. Like most people though I get frustrated by 100% myopic views on the subject that fail to see any redeeming features in the argument for the other side. Clearly there are pros and cons of each option.

I would say I'm 100% against a second vote though. The mental gymnastics that those advocating it have to do when they are asked if the next one would decide it once and for all... or what about the one after that... best of nine...
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I thought it was the evil UK government that was using people as bargaining chips (despite giving assurances on rights to remain here and work beyond brexit some time ago) surely our oh so virtuous EU neighbours are the good guys in all this and would never do such a thing.
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Theresa May offered that deal ages ago that those already here could stay, as long as the British people abroad had the same rights.

At the time the EU said no.

On another note, will Macron, Merkel and even Theresa May be in charge when we come out?
 
10 o'clock news; more delay planned in ? ..Finding Windows of Opportunity now..more like Doors of F##king Doom!
Next up Robert Peston theatrics, chucking it about with verbal gymnastics...Shakespeare Tragedy or Shakespeare Comedy..and that's only his hairdo! He has an excuse..just a poxy journalist on a late shift !
Wtf are these Cheesers playing at? Deals are not happening ..not concessional or of compromise in any shape or form!
Wurzell Gummidge..Captain Flasheart...Mr Bean....Alf Garnet......anybody with an idea?
Time for a Cunning Plan from Baldrick' Toute de Suite' ?
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
So to be clear, you think we should stand by the original vote on EU membership?
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I think they should join the EFTA for a set number of years then work out a more permanent solution.

How do you see a second vote panning out? What options will be on the ballot paper? How can it be done without making a complete mockery of the whole democratic process? Clue: it can't.
 
AFCB Lost in Brum said:
Classic Druss - whenever he's on the backfoot he answers a question with a question.

Try answering SDD's questions... if you can.
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Well, Brum, I assume the fact I think we should have a vote on any potential deal would indicate that I dont think it would make the situation worse.

I had assumed a certain level of common sense when discussing things with adults, my mistake.
 
Basically totally fed up with it,the architect of this disaster Cameron,no where to be seen.We were fed mis information at the outset and this continues unabated.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I think they should join the EFTA for a set number of years then work out a more permanent solution.

How do you see a second vote panning out? What options will be on the ballot paper? How can it be done without making a complete mockery of the whole democratic process? Clue: it can't.
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Ah, you see, it wouldnt be a second vote.

We had a vote..67.23% of people voted to remain in the EU. The government MUST honour the wishes of those voters.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
Well, Brum, I assume the fact I think we should have a vote on any potential deal would indicate that I dont think it would make the situation worse.
I had assumed a certain level of common sense when discussing things with adults, my mistake.
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Still didn't answer the question.

Please explain HOW can another vote do anything other than make things worse?

And also, WHO on earth would take it seriously for a start?
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
Ah, you see, it wouldnt be a second vote.

We had a vote..67.23% of people voted to remain in the EU. The government MUST honour the wishes of those voters.
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Yes I suspected that you were ingeniously trying to trick me into contradicting myself by referring to a referendum 43 years ago rather than a different one 2 years ago.

Just a technical point though druss: 67.23% of people didn't vote to stay in the EU did they? Come on, keep up at the back, when was the EU invented?

Can you see why this distinction is relevant?
 
billythekid said:
We have alreamdy had a democratic vote to Leave and they must now respect the result of that vote, even if they don’t like it.

Otherwise it makes a complete farce of democracy in his country.
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Democracy is already a farce in this country. The 'vote' was nothing more than an expensive opinion poll, it had no legal bearing, and it still has none. That isn't to say that it's an opinion that should be ignored, merely to say that the vote didn't give any govt a mandate to do anything, especially being so close to the margins
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Yes I suspected that you were ingeniously trying to trick me into contradicting myself by referring to a referendum 43 years ago rather than a different one 2 years ago.

Just a technical point though druss: 67.23% of people didn't vote to stay in the EU did they? Come on, keep up at the back, when was the EU invented?

Can you see why this distinction is relevant?
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Oh so now time matters?

Maybe we should have another vote....

Can't have it both ways?

Oh and ironically, you pointing out the distinction is EXACTLY the reason for another vote.
 
What significant bearing it does have is that in recent elections in EU countries and the US, the minority vote won and has been accepted in those countries.

Our vote the Majority won and hasn’t been accepted by some that didn’t like the result.

If we lose on Saturday, should we ask to have the game played again because we didn’t like the result?
 
billythekid said:
What significant bearing it does have is that in recent elections in EU countries and the US, the minority vote won and has been accepted in those countries.

Our vote the Majority won and hasn’t been accepted by some that didn’t like the result.

If we lose on Saturday, should we ask to have the game played again because we didn’t like the result?
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Oh Billy, really? If they stay up we play them again next season. Thats how it works.

Not the best analogy for your cause.

Democracy, where people have the right to change their mind when they get more information. Where people die and people old enough take their place. Its how the system works Billy.
 
There can not be a single reason why we should not have a vote on our method and style of leaving the EU. There simply isn't.

The only reason to be against such a vote is that it might not give you the type of brexit you want. But thats democracy, you know that thing the leavers talk about daily.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
Oh so now time matters?

Maybe we should have another vote....

Can't have it both ways?

Oh and ironically, you pointing out the distinction is EXACTLY the reason for another vote.
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I don't understand your point in any of these sentences.

There should be a vote every time they propose major constitutional change - there should have been one before Maastricht and Lisbon. We've just had one so we need to follow through with it at least to some extent. As I say I'd go for EFTA and wouldn't be bullied by either second referendum advocates or hard brexiteers.
 
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