Non - Brexit

billythekid said:
Just don’t forget the wishes of the voters at the Referendum back in 2016 which was to Leave.

Some of those that didn’t like the result have either tried to stop it, slow it up or want another vote and held marches.

They have been the ones stamping their feet, throwing toys out the pram, while those who were on the Leave side watched on and just want the democratic vote and result carried out.
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Do you really not think that we have all learned more about Brexit since the vote? Did you know about the backstop issue? I didn't.
 
billythekid said:
Just don’t forget the wishes of the voters at the Referendum back in 2016 which was to Leave.

Some of those that didn’t like the result have either tried to stop it, slow it up or want another vote and held marches.

They have been the ones stamping their feet, throwing toys out the pram, while those who were on the Leave side watched on and just want the democratic vote and result carried out.
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The above could apply to both sides. Both sides have held marches and both sides have stamped their feet. Peoples vote, leave means leave, the ERG etc etc.

No one is happy with the current situation where we appear to be sleep walking into leaving without a withdrawal agreement/transition period apart from Hedge Funds, millionaire disaster capitalists, US lobbyists, and he shadily funded Tufton street lot. They win, we all lose, unless you can eat sovereignty.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
When did we last elect the 1000's of civil servants in the UK who draft the laws?

What we do is elect the parliament who votes on the laws....remind me again how it works in Europe?
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This is not about drafting laws. You are simply throwing up a red herring.

The EU Commission initiates and issues directives that member states are obliged to enshrine in national law.

Have you read any of a) The Treaty of Rome, b) Maastricht or c) Lisbon? If you have, do you know and understand how decisions are taken in the EU?

Of course, you have because you wouldn't simply cut and paste neat, but irrelevant memes designed to obfuscate the real nature of the EU's democratic deficit.
 
ErikthViking said:
This is not about drafting laws. You are simply throwing up a red herring.

The EU Commission initiates and issues directives that member states are obliged to enshrine in national law.

Have you read any of a) The Treaty of Rome, b) Maastricht or c) Lisbon? If you have, do you know and understand how decisions are taken in the EU?

Of course, you have because you wouldn't simply cut and paste neat, but irrelevant memes designed to obfuscate the real nature of the EU's democratic deficit.
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As I say, he's completely blinded by his support of the EU, which given his reply to me seems entirely to do with disliking Nigel Farage rather than an actual understanding of the institution he's singing the praises of. Some of us can make our own judgements without needing to consider Nigel Farage's opinions at all.
 
ErikthViking said:
This is not about drafting laws. You are simply throwing up a red herring.

The EU Commission initiates and issues directives that member states are obliged to enshrine in national law.

Have you read any of a) The Treaty of Rome, b) Maastricht or c) Lisbon? If you have, do you know and understand how decisions are taken in the EU?

Of course, you have because you wouldn't simply cut and paste neat, but irrelevant memes designed to obfuscate the real nature of the EU's democratic deficit.
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The paragraph in bold above, is that a quote or your words?
 
dutchcherry said:
The paragraph in bold above, is that a quote or your words?
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Does answering your question, make the statement more or less true?
I don't understand why you ask.

Fact check. Look up the Treaties yourself. You will see that every word in that sentence is correct. Sadly, though, very few actually do look at original sources.

PS. If it was quotation then I would a) not need to write in bold, but instead, b) use quotation marks and, c) cite it with a reference.
 
dutchcherry said:
The paragraph in bold above, is that a quote or your words?
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lol I think his reply speaks for itself. They continue to lie and think that people dont realise.

Edited to add...if you wonder what I am referring to, there is a a rather important step missed out from the bold statement. I'm being polite by saying its missed out.
 
ErikthViking said:
Does answering your question, make the statement more or less true?
I don't understand why you ask.

Fact check. Look up the Treaties yourself. You will see that every word in that sentence is correct. Sadly, though, very few actually do look at original sources.

PS. If it was quotation then I would a) not need to write in bold, but instead, b) use quotation marks and, c) cite it with a reference.
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I am sorry I asked for clarification. On first reading it implied a cabal of people dreaming up directives that are thrust upon the Sovereign UK parliament who have no input on it or how it would be implemented. I was just wondering where that was written down as I was interested to read it.
 
billythekid said:
...the Leave side watched on and just want the democratic vote and result carried out.
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I've reread it several times trying to decide if you were being ironic but I actually think you've typed that in all seriousness.

Since it seems almost no two people on the Leave side seem able to agree on what it is they voted for, how exactly could it be carried out without the mess we're currently in?

If all the MPs that wanted to leave had voted for the deal last week things would likely have a very different complexion right now.

The fact that Leave are as split amongst themselves as Remain are from Leave makes a nonsense of your statement.

You can try and pin this on Remain as much as you like but a united Leave would probably get something through Parliament.

Implying Leave just watched on whilst Remain destroyed the process is actually quite tragic.
 
northstandmark said:
As with football referees, all we can ask is that decisions are taken / rules enforced consistently and impartially, then nobody can have any complaints. Having been used very rarely, I look forward to this precedent being followed more often in future.

I note that when the shoe was on the other foot in January, when Pro-Brexit MPs wanted Mr Bercow to follow Parliamentary precedent about the timescales for debates following defeated votes, Mr Speaker did not follow precedent. I quote him: “If we were guided only by precedent, manifestly nothing in our procedures would ever change". An interesting change of heart.

As with all referees, this is his prerogative of course.

However I also note that Mr Speaker has this morning rejected calls to publish the advice he had received from his clerks on the rule, which isn't a good look for him or our Parliament. And it doesn't help dispel any feelings that may exist of Mr Speaker not being wholly impartial.
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To say it is used very rarely is unfair. It has been in constant use for over 400 years as MPs know they can’t ask the same question twice. The fact that our prime minister didn’t know speaks volumes. The only surprise should be that she was surprised.
 
kirsikka said:
I've reread it several times trying to decide if you were being ironic but I actually think you've typed that in all seriousness.

Since it seems almost no two people on the Leave side seem able to agree on what it is they voted for, how exactly could it be carried out without the mess we're currently in?

If all the MPs that wanted to leave had voted for the deal last week things would likely have a very different complexion right now.

The fact that Leave are as split amongst themselves as Remain are from Leave makes a nonsense of your statement.

You can try and pin this on Remain as much as you like but a united Leave would probably get something through Parliament.

Implying Leave just watched on whilst Remain destroyed the process is actually quite tragic.
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Agree with most of the above.

Both Leave and remain personalities have contributed to a farcical situation. All common sense went out the window after Dodgy Dave did the dirty and then scarpered.

This could have all been fixed but for party politics of the two major parties trying to be united. In my opinion, this is where the biggest degree of complicitness in creating the current mess should lie

Labour has a few leave-at-any-cost MPs and had a few stay-at-any-pricers. A lot of Labour supporters voted leave and for the party to be too enthusiastic about staying, could drive them to UKIP. A lot of Labour Party members seem to want to champion remain.

The Conservatives are far more deeply and uncompromisingly split, both as regards MPs and supporters. They could easily lose a massive number of votes to a leave solution offered by another party.

The views of the other parties are merely makeweights to the two big ones with the current situation in Parliament.

The election that Theresa May called to give her a stonking mandate didn't work out and the result of May's gamble is that she has left it until one minute to midnight with a "deal" that suits almost no-one.

Responsibility has to be evenly spread. The EU personalities and institutions also have to carry their share as they, too, have acted irresponsibly in adopting the position of seeming to punish the UK for invoking article 50. If Britain makes a success of Brexit, several others would be emboldened to follow suit.

To put blame on one side, individual, group, party or institution, surely, cannot be justified.
 
ErikthViking said:
Agree with most of the above.

Both Leave and remain personalities have contributed to a farcical situation. All common sense went out the window after Dodgy Dave did the dirty and then scarpered.

This could have all been fixed but for party politics of the two major parties trying to be united. In my opinion, this is where the biggest degree of complicitness in creating the current mess should lie

Labour has a few leave-at-any-cost MPs and had a few stay-at-any-pricers. A lot of Labour supporters voted leave and for the party to be too enthusiastic about staying, could drive them to UKIP. A lot of Labour Party members seem to want to champion remain.

The Conservatives are far more deeply and uncompromisingly split, both as regards MPs and supporters. They could easily lose a massive number of votes to a leave solution offered by another party.

The views of the other parties are merely makeweights to the two big ones with the current situation in Parliament.

The election that Theresa May called to give her a stonking mandate didn't work out and the result of May's gamble is that she has left it until one minute to midnight with a "deal" that suits almost no-one.

Responsibility has to be evenly spread. The EU personalities and institutions also have to carry their share as they, too, have acted irresponsibly in adopting the position of seeming to punish the UK for invoking article 50. If Britain makes a success of Brexit, several others would be emboldened to follow suit.

To put blame on one side, individual, group, party or institution, surely, cannot be justified.
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Coming on here, being all sensible and fair minded FFS. Don't you know this is Brexit we're talking about?
BREXIT MEANS BREXIT!!!1111 or EVERYONE who disagrees with me is a RACIST GAMMON - that's it my friend.
 
kirsikka said:
I've reread it several times trying to decide if you were being ironic but I actually think you've typed that in all seriousness.

Since it seems almost no two people on the Leave side seem able to agree on what it is they voted for, how exactly could it be carried out without the mess we're currently in?

If all the MPs that wanted to leave had voted for the deal last week things would likely have a very different complexion right now.

The fact that Leave are as split amongst themselves as Remain are from Leave makes a nonsense of your statement.

You can try and pin this on Remain as much as you like but a united Leave would probably get something through Parliament.

Implying Leave just watched on whilst Remain destroyed the process is actually quite tragic.
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Fair enough, I probably didn’t word it very well.

Meant the ordinary people and not the politicians who looked on.

I blame Remain and Leave politicians for this mess and not the general public.
 
Pointless getting immersed in small details of Brexit or non Brexit
Its the bigger pictures we need to look at!


The ultimate aim of Corbyn is to rid Britain of Jews, The Royalty, The Army, Navy and Airforce...let us not stick that in a trash file!... Then... he would Toryify their remaining Party Elite.....a bit like Ceausescu the ex- Rumanian dictator. All very neat and lovely!

The Ultimate but Historic aim of the Tories is to make sure of maintaining a huge gap between workers and bosses. Keep them down! We know this. Brexit or not ....will not alter that!

They are Bad Rusty Staples... Grubby Benchmarks....however you want to label them!

The country needs a New Way....starting with modernising the Parlaiment and Constitution...not A Rapid Radical Blitz ...but a controlled sensible move to a more transparent and identifiable Presentation and Representation to an increasingly aware 'Communicating' population!
 
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Ken Baileys Ghost said:
Sorry, did I miss something Billy.

The general public vote for a person to become their member of parliament.

I blame the public for voting Conservative and also anybody voting Leave in the referendum.


You know I'm right Billy. ;)
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:grinning:

Luckily I didn’t have to vote for a politician in June 2016.
 
kirsikka said:
If all the MPs that wanted to leave had voted for the deal last week things would likely have a very different complexion right now.
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No, if all the MP's that WANTED to leave voted for the deal we would never leave.
A massive part of the problem is the majority of MP's are remainers inc the PM. However if all the MP's that supposedly REPRESENT leave voting constituencies had voted for the deal we would be over the line and out on 29 march.
 
redharry said:
No, if all the MP's that WANTED to leave voted for the deal we would never leave.
A massive part of the problem is the majority of MP's are remainers inc the PM. However if all the MP's that supposedly REPRESENT leave voting constituencies had voted for the deal we would be over the line and out on 29 march.
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But we don't want to leave surely?
Ask the SNP's and the rest of the silly sods.
 
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