SlowDownDerek
UTC Legend
What democracy issue? The democracy we have seen in this country the last few weeks? The call by Mogg to shut down parliament to stop democracy? That one?
No, the one he asked about.
What democracy issue? The democracy we have seen in this country the last few weeks? The call by Mogg to shut down parliament to stop democracy? That one?
No, the one he asked about.
Any comments on the democracy issue, or is it only about celebrity politicians?
How do lobbyists improve the pure democracy we enjoy in the uk?
Just need to take up your idea of abolishing the monarchy and house of lords and all will be perfect in the most perfect world.
How do lobbyists improve the pure democracy we enjoy in the uk?
Just need to take up your idea of abolishing the monarchy and house of lords and all will be perfect in the most perfect world.
We are now on page 293 of this subject.
Whether you voted Leave or Remain, as with Parliament, this thread will continue to go around in circles between the two sides, until the subject comes to conclusion between the UK and the EU.
Even then one side or the other won’t be happy, as with Theresa May’s deal.
And this is the point. Our whole lives are being messed about by Brexit. Yesterday I helped a guy who had fallen off his pushbike. He was in terrible pain and had trouble breathing. I called 999 and was told an ambulance would be with us in 4 hours! So while Brexit and immigration fuel the minds of some, there are real issues out there which are being ignored.whilst meanwhile, much bigger issues are going all around us......
And this is the point. Our whole lives are being messed about by Brexit. Yesterday I helped a guy who had fallen off his pushbike. He was in terrible pain and had trouble breathing. I called 999 and was told an ambulance would be with us in 4 hours! So while Brexit and immigration fuel the minds of some, there are real issues out there which are being ignored.
the democratic deficit on the EU
isnt unique in democratic countries unless you know of a democratic utopia ? All the UK utilities are owned by undemocratically elected companies, this probably has more impact on daily life in the UK.
A couple of things, only because I was wondering whether we had signed that elusive CM and wandered on to this thread.
We have an adversarial system of politics brought about largely by a first-past-the post system of elections. This means that in any election a large number of people are not represented by the government in power. On the whole this, arguably, hasn't mattered, it's a blunt edged system but it tends to have worked. However it does mean that when the likes UKIP and the idea of us leaving the EU began to raise its head there was no way they were going to be able to gain representation to the system as it exists. Barring one existing MP when he resigned his seat and stood as a UKIP candidate in an election. The Lib Dems have been complaining about this for years and number of votes they have to get before an MP is elected.
So when we eventually had a referendum we discovered that in fact huge numbers of people felt they were not being represented. A lot of them in post-industrial constituencies in the midlands.
What happened? A large number of people gave a large kick up the a*** to a large number of politicians. And why? Because for the first time in several decades their vote counted and you had people signing up to vote for the first time. (This incidentally really pissed me off in that they had shown no interest in voting in their communities at all prior to the referendum, but hey it proved the alienation). Additionally this has now put the Labour Party in a very difficult situation with the idea of a peoples's vote.
My point is that had we had a proportional representation system in this country the BREXIT situation probably would never had arisen because at the very least, people would have had some representation in the first place. Some, in favour of BREXIT might not think this a good thing but I find it interesting that after WW2 the allies insisted Germany had a PR system and which makes the political parties talk to each other prior to forming coalitions. If any country has been successful post WW2 it is Germany. It might also be worth pointing out that that most enthusiastic of MEPs, Nigel Farage, was elected via PR.
We have a political system that is broken; we have a Tory party which is split down the middle and propped up by the DUP which has 10 seats in Parliament. The DUP were elected with just 292,316 votes (the lib dems by the way received 2.4 million votes for their 12 seats). We have a Labour party that is terrified of losing seats if they vote for a People's Vote; they are so busy sitting on the fence it must be very painful. And nobody votes for the Lib Dems because of how difficult it is to vote for a winning candidate.
Any proportional representational system for a while will cause some of confusion in a country that isn't used to it. But the Tory Brexiteers could decide whether they want to go off a form their nasty little right wing party with the rump of UKIP. The Social Democrat side of the Labour Party can talk to the One Nation side of the Tories and the left wing of the Labour Party can talk to the Socialist Workers Party and the lib dems would have to make up their minds who they were going to talk to.
After the election would be the interesting bit because the parties would have to think about their constituents while negotiating a coalition because every vote would count.
And this is the point. Our whole lives are being messed about by Brexit. Yesterday I helped a guy who had fallen off his pushbike. He was in terrible pain and had trouble breathing. I called 999 and was told an ambulance would be with us in 4 hours! So while Brexit and immigration fuel the minds of some, there are real issues out there which are being ignored.
This is exactly why Corbyn is wrong to suggest a general election is the best way to sort brexit. We've already had one and it got us nowhere.
Except Corbyn didn’t get elected, so he wants another go.
Which brings us back to Brexit, some Remainers want another vote for the same reasons.
A couple of things, only because I was wondering whether we had signed that elusive CM and wandered on to this thread.
We have an adversarial system of politics brought about largely by a first-past-the post system of elections. This means that in any election a large number of people are not represented by the government in power. On the whole this, arguably, hasn't mattered, it's a blunt edged system but it tends to have worked. However it does mean that when the likes UKIP and the idea of us leaving the EU began to raise its head there was no way they were going to be able to gain representation to the system as it exists. Barring one existing MP when he resigned his seat and stood as a UKIP candidate in an election. The Lib Dems have been complaining about this for years and number of votes they have to get before an MP is elected.
So when we eventually had a referendum we discovered that in fact huge numbers of people felt they were not being represented. A lot of them in post-industrial constituencies in the midlands.
What happened? A large number of people gave a large kick up the a*** to a large number of politicians. And why? Because for the first time in several decades their vote counted and you had people signing up to vote for the first time. (This incidentally really pissed me off in that they had shown no interest in voting in their communities at all prior to the referendum, but hey it proved the alienation). Additionally this has now put the Labour Party in a very difficult situation with the idea of a peoples's vote.
My point is that had we had a proportional representation system in this country the BREXIT situation probably would never had arisen because at the very least, people would have had some representation in the first place. Some, in favour of BREXIT might not think this a good thing but I find it interesting that after WW2 the allies insisted Germany had a PR system and which makes the political parties talk to each other prior to forming coalitions. If any country has been successful post WW2 it is Germany. It might also be worth pointing out that that most enthusiastic of MEPs, Nigel Farage, was elected via PR.
We have a political system that is broken; we have a Tory party which is split down the middle and propped up by the DUP which has 10 seats in Parliament. The DUP were elected with just 292,316 votes (the lib dems by the way received 2.4 million votes for their 12 seats). We have a Labour party that is terrified of losing seats if they vote for a People's Vote; they are so busy sitting on the fence it must be very painful. And nobody votes for the Lib Dems because of how difficult it is to vote for a winning candidate.
Any proportional representational system for a while will cause some of confusion in a country that isn't used to it. But the Tory Brexiteers could decide whether they want to go off a form their nasty little right wing party with the rump of UKIP. The Social Democrat side of the Labour Party can talk to the One Nation side of the Tories and the left wing of the Labour Party can talk to the Socialist Workers Party and the lib dems would have to make up their minds who they were going to talk to.
After the election would be the interesting bit because the parties would have to think about their constituents while negotiating a coalition because every vote would count.